I realize I will most likely receive backlash for this however it should be noted that at the time my writing this the media is reporting that at least 26 people (20 children) are dead at a school in Newtown, CT due to the latest episode of gun violence in our country.
Since 2000, there have been no less than 18 episodes of gun violence (mass shootings) carried out with a total of 176 dead and many more injured in the US. I think it is important to note that since from 2000-2005, there were only 3 of these crimes and from 2005 until 2012 there have been 14. All of these killings have been carried out by men and there are a few other interesting trends. (Source Los Angeles Times)
* 53% were carried out by men under the age of 30.
* 29% were carried out by students (high school or college)
* 82% occurred between 2005 – 2012 (The Brady Bill which on assault weapons was allowed to expire on September 13, 2004)
* 31% occurred between 2010 -2012
* 18% occurred between 2000-2005
The NRA
From 2000 – 2008 lobbying by the National Rifle Association spending for the most part was essentially flat due to what I would assume was a more firearm friendly Republican atmosphere in Washington and a war time environment. You will note that from 2008 –present, the spending has almost doubled which again leads me to conclude is due to a Democratic and traditionally anti-gun environment. Note that 2012 totals are not complete however they are included through June of this year below and suggest the same aggressive spending pattern.
Mental Heath Services
Since fiscal year 2009 (most recent data available), states have cut more than $1.6 billion in general funds from mental health agency budgets (source NAMI). The state cuts also coincide with recent declines in federal Medicaid funds which all but eliminate any mental health safety net.
Based on these facts, I wanted to ask 3 questions:
- Does it make sense as a society to allow guns to be readily available given our track record? Personally, I think the time has passed and we need a new model of ownership. Interestingly, I am not anti-gun. Instead, I feel that we have not looked into other options for ownership or been creative about it assuming that an all or nothing model applies.
- Is the NRA helping or hurting the cause by throwing money at our lawmakers with the hope to dampen or eliminate laws that “might” otherwise serve the general public to lessen these crimes? While I believe that those who belong to the NRA truly believe in responsible gun ownership, I also believe the NRA is hurting the society at large through their lobbying.
- How will cutting or eliminating an already frail safety net serve the general public in proactively detecting some of these men before it is too late?
As a society, I do not understand how we can turn our back and assume that if we ignore mental illness and lax gun control laws these scenarios will simply go away.
Govstench
9:16 am on Tuesday, December 18, 2012
While society continues to see these tragedies appearing too frequently, perhaps the leaders in government and law enforcement are approaching this problem the wrong way. We are dealing with a growing number of unbalanced individuals who have access to guns.
∙All the laws we have on the books today do not stop these people from obtaining these weapons. We can all agree that a sufficient amount of water has flowed under the bridge and there are millions of guns on the street. Trying to make tougher gun control laws will not work as it will only create a wider black market for them. We can continue to squander resources trying to prevent these disturbed individuals from obtaining guns but this will only end in failure.
∙We have enhanced this problem further with the level of violence in video games and other media. Many of today’s youth are involved in these games and attend classes to improve their skill set to obtain higher scores. Perhaps these individuals are acting these games out in real life, unable to separate fantasy from reality. When they embark on these rampages , they are suddenly confronted with the reality of their deed - cannot accept it and commit suicide.
With the previous tragedies of Virginia Tech, the movie theater, Colombine and others, authorities have come away with more data but no real solutions. Perhaps the answer is right under their noses.
NK Parent
10:06 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Yeah, your "everyone packing heat" hypothesis worked out so well in the Wild West. Nobody e-v-e-r got shot back then.
Govstench
9:17 am on Tuesday, December 18, 2012
For example:
▸When was the last time you encountered a situation where an individual stormed a police station to kill police? Never.
▸When you see money going to banks, they are transported by armed guards to the bank. We protect our currency with guns.
▸We have armed guards in our courts - they are protecting criminals from society and v. versus. Why don’t we do the same with our youth?
So what is missing with all of these tragedies? A deterrent! Police chiefs have stated that they cannot be everywhere and when these unbalanced people go into public venues, they have unrestricted access to unarmed individuals - like “clay pigeons in a shooting gallery.
It is time that society accept the fact that we need armed protection at these public venues for as long as they are open. Whether it is a movie theater, a school, a place of employment or whatever, a person needs to be posted inside these places to be the deterrent to these unbalanced people. If we can do it in banks and the courts, why not everywhere else? These security people do not have to display the gun but leave it concealed. But the word must go out that this sort of behavior will no longer be tolerated by society.
Brucernri
2:18 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012
Embracing your hypothesis that armed protection is the only effective deterrent to violence, why should we stop with arming security people with concealed weapons? If everybody packed some heat then surely nobody would ever threaten violence against anyone else based on your reasoning? You ask, “why not everywhere else” and include schools in your list of public venues needing protection. So, do I safely (pun intended) assume, despite your moniker, that you’re ready and willing to foot the bill for the associated cost of placing a trained and armed security officer in every public school with an additional $50 billion in required tax revenue (approx. 100,000 public schools X $50,000/year salary)? Imagine the economic engine when every private enterprise suddenly employs 1 or more security officers too? The more I consider it, I’m beginning to believe that you’ve not only solved the issue of gun violence in America, you’ve also come up with a sensible solution for avoiding the fiscal cliff. Genius! Finally, if you have the time, please enlighten me about “these unbalanced people” to whom you refer.
Govstench
8:06 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
To Brucernri: The Mayor of Fall River announced last night that every school in his city will have a policeman posted there and at no additional expense to the buget. Also, the St. Louis Police Chief is taking similiar methods. There is nothing wrong with placing added security in these locations. Parents are very concerned about the safety of their children in these facilities and local government cannot ignore it anymore. It must be addressed!
Brucernri
11:13 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
At "no additional expense" would require moving an officer from one assignment (off the streets) to a school assignment. Either that, of the police are volunteering their time, which won't go on for long. Come on, think it through. Finally, I never suggested that there was anything wrong with the goal of making schools, or public venues, safer. Just the opposite. I'm challenging your propositions on how it should be done, how practical they are, and how effective they would be.
Govstench
9:20 am on Tuesday, December 18, 2012
If lawmakers want to do something constructive, perhaps they should write language that would make these attacks acts of terrorism and subject these people to the death penalty. Society should not be forced to pay to house these individuals for the rest of their natural lives. Were seeking a stronger deterrent here and this should be a federal law as federal education funds are involved here!
Unfortunately, this country has become more violent and is probably being driven by television and video games. The people who are committing these acts are doing the killing, not the guns. The media is also encouraging these incidents by announcing body counts and making celebrities of these killers. We don’t need wall to wall coverage of these events. This has to end!
And to those government officials that are fearful that the ACLU may step in and attempt to block any changes in law, I would ask them, "you want your child's blood on your hands?"
Mike Burt
2:42 pm on Tuesday, December 18, 2012
"While society continues to see these tragedies appearing too frequently, perhaps the leaders in government and law enforcement are approaching this problem the wrong way. We are dealing with a growing number of unbalanced individuals who have access to guns."
- Actually, this is what is transpiring with the assault weapons history in recent years (most prominently since the Brady Bill was allowed to expire). If we look at only this one cross section of violence we are not truly looking at the entire picture.
Poverty is the one known driver in the inner city and has contributed to handgun violence. Using your line of thinking should we also hand out more guns to those living in impoverished areas?
Perhaps your right and as Dickens wrote A Christmas Carol, maybe we should follow your advise and "decrease the surplus population".
Just so you know, the last time (in this counrty) someone stormed a police station was in July in Anaheim. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/07/protesters-storm-anaheim-police-station.html
Tired of NK antics
8:08 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
@Mike Burt, your Fx news link is about people protesting a cop shooting an "innocent" civilian. It is NOT related to Sandy Hook. C'mon man you are embarrassing
Mike Burt
8:44 am on Friday, December 21, 2012
Tired of NK antics - Govnstech wrote: "▸When was the last time you encountered a situation where an individual stormed a police station to kill police? Never." This was the reason for my response. In future, my suggestion is to read the entire thread.
Tired of NK antics
9:26 am on Friday, December 21, 2012
Oh I read the entire thread Mike as well as the link. What were the protesters going to use kill the police, their signs?
Govstench
8:27 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Mr. Burt - I guess your able to dismiss these 27 deaths as every day living in America. We are talking about the future of this country and young lives. Some in the aw enforcement community are getting the message from their elected leaders that the schools must tighten up security - what is more valuable than young children? Are we to wait for the next school to be hit or a nursing home or even a church? All the gun laws in the world will not stop these people. When they are out of their heads, anything is possible. Perhaps the question that needs to be asked is, "how much is a child's life worth? We all know that answer!
Mike Burt
9:55 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
I'm not sure where I said I dismissed 27 deaths. In fact if anything, my take is that 1 life taken by any type of violence is too many. I do find it interesting that you have not responded to any of the facts that I posted but I guess that goes with the territory when you post anonymously.
Govstench
4:43 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
Mr. Burt, your data from the LA times is from a liberal source and is subject to bias. I just don't trust it. Also, regarding the gun laws, people say that a ban on assault rifles should be put back into effect. I have no objection to it BUT society is against it as they don't trust the government to just stop there - they will want to ban the rest of them. I would stick to the arguement instead of trading jabs on being anonymous.
Mike Burt
5:45 pm on Thursday, December 20, 2012
This is from Fox News. Fair and Balanced enough?
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1750026625001/protesters-storm-anaheim-police-station-after-fatal-shooting/
seed and soil
10:47 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
IMHO we as a society, and as individuals need to look deeper at the root of these recent tragedies. Many have the common denominator of young men who are effected by a similar type of brain disorder. We listened and learned quite a bit in the past few days in regard to the specific brand of brain illness effecting these young men. My hope is that more light will shine on this issue and more awareness of the services/treatments required to keep these individuals out of the general population. My hope is that residential facilities with trained mental heath AND professional security personnel will be in place at these homes to keep identified threats off our streets. .
seed and soil
10:49 am on Wednesday, December 19, 2012
Certainly some new gun control measures are in order as well. IMO semi-automatics having the capability to delivery 100's of bullets in just a few seconds do not belong in the hands of the general public. Military, police and professional security should be the only ones allowed access. Hunting and home protection type weapons still should be accessible. It's all in the details/the nuances of the type of weapon. I believe their is a balance that can be struck. Other issues that need to be addressed - parenting responsibility. Why so many parents allow their children to watch movies, listen to music, view television programming, and play video games that desensitize the value of human life is something I have never understood. My hope is that this and other incidents like this are a wake-up call that will FINALLY jolt more into a paradigm shift on all the pieces in play in this tragic puzzle
Tired of NK antics
9:59 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012
@ s & s, FYI, semi-automatic weapons do not have the capability of delivering "100's of bullets in a few seconds". I realize that is a common understanding, but it is not accurate. A semi-automatic gun (also known as an autoloading or self-loading gun) fires one shot for each pull of the trigger. The trigger must be released and pulled again to fire another shot.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_semi-automatic_rifles_work
What you are describing are fully automatic weapons and those are already illegal.
seed and soil
10:33 am on Thursday, December 20, 2012
thanks @tonka!.....i'm def no gun expert....and am happy to hear that these are are already illegal. I am sure the ammo experts will make better distinctions between guns that are okay for hunting and reasonable home protection and others that are the killing machines that should be in the hands of the pros only. That is what I hope in the weeks and months ahead will be a meaningful part the the gun control solution portion of the issue.