Nice letter. The only ones who come out ahead in these matters are the lawyers

Finally someone on the town council that gets it. As a wife of a firefighter, these shifts really put a damper on our family life and just adds more stress to the stressful firefighters already. Thank you for speaking up Brennan.

My wife & I are completely against these poor firemen having to work 24 hour shifts at a time! We believe the family and human costs far out weigh what North Kingstown realizes in budget savings!

I would love to know the total bills we have paid over the last few years to lawyers, outside accountants, IT consultants, etc.... because we are fighting with ourselves. Just the bills listed here and the ones for the lawsuits between the TC and SC should make everyone realize something is very, very wrong in this town.

Thank you for the letter Mr. Brennan, it must be hard to be associated with this town council. I wonder if Mr. Bestwick feels the same way being that he voted against the invalid/illegal ordinance too? It would be nice to hear what he thinks. He is the only one that hasn't written a letter yet.

The town had paid out almost 1.2 million dollars to kinder and assoc. as of Jan 2012. More than 8 months have passed since, I assure you all that that number has climbed.

A council should be able to curb spending while treating its employees with respect/dignity. This is done through good faith negotiations.

Dolan,hueston,stahm have refused to negotiate in good faith, illegally passed an ordinance, and then attempted to belittle the fire department in a poorly written letter in response to fire going public.

That letter is an insult to anyone who works in the profession.

As a wife of a police officer and a friend of many firefighters, I commend you. What has been done to firefighters and their families in this town is an outrage. Myself and my children have experienced the long hours and even days away from my husband. He has missed holidays and birthdays, and like Mr. Brennan said it’s not to become rich but to be comfortable and know that there will be a pension when he retires. I feel for the families of these firefighters who now have to go even longer periods of time without their husbands and fathers. I appreciate the fact that you came out to stand your ground Mr. Brennan and thank you for supporting the hard working people of this town.

As a taxpayer who has spent more than one night in a Firehouse I speak from experience that an overnight shift is not the place for a sound night sleep. However, "to be fair here", it's not like you're laying there staring at the ceiling. There's a learning curve, but that's the job. Most fire departments in the nation operate this way.

This phoney "poor firemen- they're away ( tho, right down the street, according to you) from their families" ruse is a false argument. There are dozens of vocations involving time away from families (salesmen, airline pilots/crew, truckers, merchant marines, military officers, on and on). All know it's part of the job. What makes our union members any different? They practice intimidation! Google "Union Stewards' Prayer"
To Brennan's point: "...the economy is bad and has been for years. The problem is not caused by labor!" One has to ask... where have you been for the last 75 years, Chuck? The democrats and unions RUN RI. As a teen, I watched as the ASCME closed my fathers' printing press factory in Westerly in the 70's. Crushed it. Just like they did all accross America.
Thankfully, people woke up and there are now "Right to work" states because of it.
Guys like Brennan love to point the finger at "Big bad corporations". It's a union mantra.
Locally, OVER HALF our towns are bankrupt. The unions and their puppets in elected office did this. That's the dirty secret of our financial condition.

The only thing I disagree with is his statement that the employees benefits have become so expensive through no fault of their own. Their own union is the primary reason for their benefits, especially pensions being so expensive, otherwise it was a well written letter, and I happen to agree.

Mr. Brennan, I met you a year or two ago at a house social event after a neighborhood fundraising race for a North Kingstown elementary school . After reading your viewpoint here I am glad to have met you! People in positions of power who have walked the walk often offer the most legitimate points of view.

Brennan writes a nice letter. I'm not as pro-labor because governments are broke. I agree that corporate greed collapsed our economy, and in fact just today yet another debacle will result in no one being punished in the least, FM Global will result in no charges.
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But regardless the cause, governments are broke. Labor is the biggest cost of local government. THAT being said, the NK republicans did not solve the labor cost issue with this hare-brained, and hostile move against the firefighters, who are really great people.
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All they did was ADD cost for legal fights, and upset the town. These are the same people who supported and still support Halley, who was on the NKGOP chariot THIS YEARS Memorial Day parade. I'm not sure when NK will get it regarding this small group of people, the NK "republicans", and I'm equally unsure when the nk democrats will get more people like Chuck, and Ed, and Sue and John, and get rid of the deadwood and present a solid ticket each year with a credible message, so we can have another choice. The NK DEMS (party not all their candidates) are as much to blame because they cant get their act together. And the NK republicans are the problem in all these things, so it should be easy.

I agree with Mr. Brennan. The 24 Hour shifts do not make sence. They have the potential for injuries after a 20 plus hour shift.
I challinge the town council to try it.

Thanks Chuck for coming forward with you opinion on the 24-hour shift. I also agree with you but would add as I did when I spoke to the town council that I don't feel comfortable with our firefighters coming to my home or anyone else's home after working over 20 hours and now we learn some have been working far longer. Public safety is just that...protecting the public and that is a primary consideration. It is late but not too late to sit down without Kinder and settle this issue before all of the promised savings disappear in leagl bills and overtime payments. Thanks Chuck, your letter is why I asked you to reconsider another run for town council.

25,000 dollars every pay period??

That's 650,000 if its biweekly

Or

1,300,000 a year ?????

Where are the taxpayer savings!!!!

Mr. Welch,
Likewise I am in agreement that we need to eliminate the 24hr shifts and settle our differences with the firefighters. However, I question some of your recent decisions. If you haven’t noticed the NKESP and the NK Firefighters are unified in their support of each other against the very poor decisions being made by both the TC and the SC which is tearing at the fabric of our town. What about the legal fees that are mounting with the SC’s battle with NKESP? Why don’t you and your fellow school committee members take a moment to reflect on what you have done to some of the people of this town, our fellow citizens, during these trying times. And to your point , let us ” settle these issues (all of them) before all of the promised savings disappear in legal bills.” ?

The new 24 Hr shift was NOT studied by those in the field. Instead the Town Council majority enlisted thier lawyer Dan Kinder to change the face of the Fire Rescue service in town with absolutly NO experiance or education in the field of emergency services. This was a very very bad decision that can be reversed. The Town Council needs to sit with the Fire Chief its command staff and the Firefighters Union without Dan Kinder and work out some contract concessions that can be effective in restoring SAFE cost effective Fire Rescue service. This policy by the Town Council was a complete failure! Save face and blame Kinder....or whatever you have to do...Just fix your mistake while you still have time

Finally, some common sense from a member of the Town Council!

"The firefighters are willing to make concessions like the other unions have."

This is now, and was the case back when......

The impass between the fire union and the tc was that the fire union didn't want to re-write their entire contract, and work 14 extra hours per week for free. I wouldn't call that unreasonable by any means, it's also illegal per fair labor standards act which applies to ffs.

However, those 3 coucilors wanted to implement provisions they saw fit in their overall anti-labor campaign. Now we will all pay for it. Like said in this letter and by readers, it's not too late.

The ordinance is illegal and there is an unfair labor practice suit underway....,

Does anybody know why the schedule hasn't been changed yet? (serious question, if anyone knows can they pls share?)

Chris, I am interested in knowing why the schedule has not been changed yet as well. If the ordinance was ruled illegal in court, why was it not changed back right away? And now there are unfair labor practice suits underway, and firefighters ordered to work 48 and 96 hours straight? Can you imagine if anything happens? It really is scary.

33 Comments and Concerned Resident has, "Power Posted" 17 times. Oh (Golden Brown Boy), get back on your plane and fly back to Florida. It must really tick you off that you are wrong, and those dumb Firefighters are right. Who do they think they are.... !!

Concerned needs help getting out of that ditch he's in... I love it... I am laughing across the bridges...

I appreciate the comments everyone. It seems like most of us believe that using our tax dollars to pay attorneys to fight is counterproductive. Please take the time to email the council if you want to see us make things right with the NKFD.

Who is Dan Jinder anyway? Did he advise the town council to enact this 24 hour shift knowing full well he would reap the windfall with the ensuing legal battles? I feel as if we've been taken. I'm glad someone is finally speaking out.

Mr Welsh: What savings! Let’s review the numbers that we are aware of from the result of all this in fighting between the TC, the SC and the town’s unions. So far we spent $129K in legal fees, as you aptly stated suing ourselves. To this total add $250K in legal fees, another $50K in expert witness fees and $25K+ per pay period in OT for the towns dispute with our Firefighters. Then we need to factor in the costs of the school committee first lawsuit with the ESP which have not been made public. Future SC legal expenses will result from the multiple grievances presently filed against the school department and subsequent lawsuits.
And what about your concerns regarding Jamestown? The schools are not clean. What do you think the representative from Jamestown thinks with all the bickering and fighting taking place at SC meetings? Last Tuesday she witnessed firsthand how unhappy town employees are with you and your cohorts. The perception that you portray at these meetings is terrible. Keep it up and we’ll potentially loose over $2 million from Jamestown and who could blame them.

What lawsuit with ESP are you refering to? As to your coment about Jamestown isn't that my point? I don't understand what it is that you are trying to say here...If you agree, O K. It sounds like you are trying to make a case for ESP and any cost in trying to get a contract. There are laws that determine how contract negoiations are conducted and what actions either side may take. The union took the S/C to court not the other way around...you don't have to be right to stay out of court but you do have to answer the court when you are sued. Just like with the Firefighters contract problem if we could do this without the lawyers this probably would have been completed. You only have to look at the recent NFL contract that was going NO WHERE until BOb Kraft said let's get the lawyers out of the meetings and they settled the contract shortly there after. I think that if you want to know what it cost for legal fees on the ESP contract you should also ask your union how much they are spending as well...if you are a NK resident you are paying for both sides with your taxes and your union dues. The actions of the ESP union and friends on Tuesday evening are lost on me as I don't know how that might have helped your cause. We spent 18 months trying to come to an agreement and we understand everything that has been said...yelling and calling out names is not productive.

Interesting reading for all:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/union-chiefs-compensation-has-skyrocketed-since-2000/article/2505126#.UC1ufkQmZPQ

Mr. Welsh: Are you naïve- I cannot believe you think you will not be sued by ESP for the actions of the school committee. Do you think that you bargained in good faith? Regarding the custodians, Larry Cerisi was quoted as saying” we have been trying to get rid of you for years”. Earlier this year Dr. Auger was projecting a deficit while at the same time he and other administrators were receiving raises from the SC (and do not come back and say it was in their contracts. The SC approved and signed those contracts during a recession). Now the Superintendent is changing ESP paraprofessionals into part time positions with no health benefits. The arbitration agreement would have saved the school department $622 (GCA $400) in the first year, but instead the SC decided to terminate employees, cutting wages and benefits for others. It appears that you and the SC have chosen confrontation rather than compromise. It's all about union busting!
http://www.neindependent.com/articles/2012/07/05/opinion/doc4ff5a17d54ad2605619380.txt

I think we may be getting off topic here.

Thank you, Chuck...I thought this was about firefighters working 48 and 96 hour shifts!

@ Chuck, why hasnt the town council hired even 1 new firefighter to set off the Overtime costs?

Concerned you have no right asking who or what profession while hiding behind a false name!!!!!

Concerned why don't you let everyone know what you do and who you are?

Our firefighters and our residents are being seriously harmed as we speak by the town council..

Union or not .... The department needs new firefighters

You tell everyone to leave this patch yet it is a OPEN PUBLIC BLOG!!

Everyone on here has posted positive blogs and given information regarding the town of NK

You have not !!!!

Maybe you should be the on to leave Concerned considering nobody agrees with you except all the other voices in your mindless head

Grow up! Your a child I'm no longer go to speak to you!

Its clearly a battle of wits and you came unarmed

Go waste some more oxygen since you have contributed absolutely NOTHING to life or anything to do with the real world.

This will be the end of my communication with you. I will continue to stay on this site and continue to watch the town council fail yet again and continue to watch everyone dislike everything about your entire being.

BUHHHH BYEEE CR!!!!!

Once again concerned I apologize I forgot you were the blog police... ATTENTION ALL NON-NORTH KINGSTOWN TAXPAYERS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO COMMENT PER DIRECT ORDER FROM KING CONCERNED.....

By the way your a pu$$y for not using your real name....

Being in the utility arena for over two decades and storm restoration work, when you have to string 18 to 20 hour days together EVERYDAY until the system is restored takes it toll on a person. You do it because the job requires it. Private sector jobs that require travel away from home is also another that puts strains on the family. You do it because you have to bring the money home to the family. With the economy the way it is today, municipal workers should be thankful they have a job! If your so fed up with the job, then do what people do in the private sector, GO LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB ALREADY!

Govstench, that is understandable during storm restoration, etc. for a week or two. Actually, municipal workers often do the same thing during those times--pumping basements during the floods last year, shoveling hydrants during blizzards, etc. is not unusual at all. Not staffing properly is not appropriate, and working 48 and 96 hours straight, many hours per week for over 6 months takes its toll far more than a storm restoration which lasts for 2-4 weeks.

These folks are thankful they have a job, but sadly many that the town has paid to train are finding other jobs in Warwick and Cranston and Providence.

Times are tough. Unions must make concessions, no question about it. But what the town council has done is against the law. They lost in arbitration, so they attempted an end run with an illegal ordinance, then lost in court when Judge Stern ruled that the ordinance was, indeed illegal. Now two complaints have been made by the Labor Board. To toss off "be thankful you have a job" is to trivialize a pretty serious situation, with long-ranging consequences.

Why don't you call the department today and find out how many people have been ordered to work, and how many hours they have been working? Someone will tell you, I am sure.

Sounds like a great idea. Its time the "truth and correct statements" are exposed.
Perhaps CR should be the first to make the call. Go talk to the Firefighters, listen to the scanner... see how often they go out during the day and night between "quiet time" I have and I'll tell you what it averages alot more than the "3 "times a week.
The proof is in the puddin..... and its there , for all to see/hear for themselves.

Why does the Council continue to post letters-- with incorrect information? If they are right...Read the information it is there for the public to see read it all , there is quite a bit. It appears to still be in court because the ruleings are being ignored.
Its as blatent as the nose on everyones face. If you are tired of the 1/2 truths you say the union is stating.. it appears on the website that was posted quite awhile back follow it , why are you not tired of the 1/2 truths from the town council. Perhaps you are a council lover. ??? This back and forth is useless.. this situation still continues
What happed at the SC meeting is irrevelant to this issue. Take that to whatever blog that is going on at.

Some liability numbers to consider: Weekly OT is not really $25,500, but actually about $31,700 when they get their retro for the 23% underpayment for hours worked. Same thing will happen with the regular salaries. Another 23% above what they have received back to March for each hour worked. Another rub, both the Town and firefighters will owe the State of RI MERS pensions more since that will be re-calculated. Yes, it is cheaper to pay OT than hire people, but when you are more than 25% understaffed (pre 24 hr level) and you implement an illegal short staffed 3 platoon system to hide that, where is the balance. I think the TC has gotten too far down the road to save any face on the money they have wasted on this bandaid approach to their budget issues. Just the Kinder payments and escalating OT costs and growing retro that will be due when this plays out is mind boggling! Taxpayers should be worrying about this and what it is doing to their fire and EMS protection. The clock is ticking for the first big screw-up or accident. If the Town is so worried about saving money, where are the new hires to replace those leaving the sinking ship? No new hires just further balloons the OT costs and make the whole thing more hazardous to everyone, including CR, Paul Marshall, and all the rest of NK residents whether taxpayers or not.

CR, I am speaking of all the informaiton pretaining to this issue... This issue not the SC. Information pertaining to this issue is revelant. I do not believe the OT costs prior has been listed to mr. Brennen-direct your question to him. What is the union looking for? You ask much in the line of questions and make statements that the information listed is incorrect and false. Perhaps you should do some research that does pertain to Theese issues in NK and enlighten us. I come from a family and unfortunately a world where people care about people and thier well being especially people who are in the line of caring for others. Like all other decent values people used to have, I guess this is not the norm any longer . This is about saftey . Plain and simple. Mr. Brennen is right. I believe from what I read-- (in all I have read, not just this letter) the firefighters just can not continue on this incredible amount of hours in a work week. Can you blame them? Most cant.

Again, more of the same from you. You should go in the bathroom and look in the mirror and hold a conversation with yourself. Due to the fact you only like what you have to say. I am not intereseted in conversing with you any longer. I have read the other information as I previously stated. I have chosen not to post my thoughts until now. I do have a life , unlike others to whom the Patch is obviously thier life. I am compelled to now post my thoughts MY thoughts because this situation is completely out of hand. Try and broaden your vocabulary , inbetween posts-- because again you say much of the same.....on all the blogs you choose to comment on. I have read all the information available on this issue==watched the TC meetings and I have formed an opinion : defination " based on information gathered and judgement made by an individual." Like many statements made by you. Right? opinion. Again, I welcome myself as a "first timer", union lover, or FF
I saved you some time , so you can broaden your vocabulary. Perhaps some based on available information . King CR has spoken yet again. I guess he is banishing me from this blog..... OH, wait is this still a democracy? I'll email the editor maybe she can clear this up.. Now I have gotten off the topic. Again, Mr Brennen is right .

I ask everyone as I have done over the past few weeks, myself read all the information available . This is what I have done and formed an opinion. Something has got to give for theese firefighters plain and simple. Like them or not , need them or not, its just not right. I applaud Mr. Brennen for speaking out and trying to make things right.
He is someone who is in a position in this town. He obviously has information-- see above . As stated above this is a train wreck , obviously getting worse by the day, week, month. Taxes are a fact of "life" . They go up, prices at the grocery store go up, at the gas pump. Its everywhere ...........Lets stop the blame game. There is a problem -lets fix it. Having a FD working 56, 62, 74, 80, 96, 112, 120 hrs an individual, a week is not a fix it is a band aid put in place that is going to enventually fall off with a bigger "boo boo" to fix after it does. One that ordinances, lawyers policies, and letters in the patch will not help either.

Never blogged before- refer to my previous statements. You should really see a doctor, you seem to have short term memory loss. I know its hard for you to believe that people can tell the truth. I used to read here and wonder why people engaged with you but it actually becomes fun. Great idea about the rent--email the town council, I believe that is what Mr. Brennan sugggested. I am banishing myself from your blog, because I do not have short term memory loss "Dorie" and you are a broken record. Watch Nemo , maybe some good old fashioned Disney heartwarming story lines can help your miserable disposition. Terrible way to live.

Let’s see, you write "I am not interested in conversing with you any longer" BUT you continue to converse. Must admit I can understand as when one hits a union nerve it's difficult for someone such as you to stop "conversing".
I look forward to additional rhetoric on your part as much is obvious.....please continue OR are you going to stop conversing.
Guessing that you're probably on the phone seeking someone to take over for ya.

poof......... I have officially banished myself from your kingdom of fun!....Just keep swimming Dorie!!

TY to Councilman Brennan for telling us the truth behind this issue. Both sides have been beating each other up forever, and over time the fire fighters have really made their case as far as I'm concerned. This letter clinches it for me. With all the crazy useless nonsense on this column, nobody has said his letter is wrong! guess the fire made concessions and not demands all along. He has been on both sides as a cop and a politician, and gets the issue better than most of us ever will I'm sure. Too bad the rest of the council just doesn't get it. maybe they will in November.

I absolutely agree JB. Well said!

Its amazing that people say "find another job if you don't like it"

Being a firefighter/paramedic isn't just a job. When a person decides to become a firefighter their training and course work never ends.

Firefighters in North Kingstown all have these certifications and licenses
NFPA Firefighter level 1
NFPA Firefighter level 2
Hazardous Materials Operation
Hazardous Materials Technican
Rhode Island EMT- Cardiac (advanced life support)
National Registry EMT- Paramedic
American Heart Assoc. CPR-AED, ACLS (advanced cardiac life support), PALS
(pediatric life support), IV therapy
NFPA Arson Detection
NFPA Rope Rescue Technican
NFPA Confined Space Rescue Technican
NFPA Pump Operator
NFPA Fire Officer
FEMA Incident Response level 100,200,300,400,700,800
FEMA Weapons of Mass Destruction (AWR160)

All these license and certification are obtained by these professionals in our town and while the town council thinks the firefighters are constantly watch TV and napping these men and woman are training and keeping those certifications and licenses current and up to date.

These men and woman aren't just 9-5 monday through friday workers. They are working 48-96 hours straight and have to take vacation and sick time just to go home to their families. All with the fear of being Called back to fill in more and more vacancies.

These firefighters are some of the best most highly trained individuals in the state. And due to the current situation many are retiring early or leaving for other fire departments where the city or town is not trying to destroy the union but the lives of the first responders.

Though we may not call 911 every day or need them every minute of our lives. These 57 men and women are standing by to place their lives in harms way for complete strangers, family members, neighbors, and co workers. They signed up to do the job, to help be part of our town and to support everyone in the time of need. And though they are not out on calls 24 hours a day they are all there waiting and staying ready no matter what our situations may be.

These men and women deserve to make a living, to provide for their families, and to be safe while doing that. But when 3 people step in and place 26,000 residents and 57 firefighters in grave danger something needs to change. I support our firefighters in North Kingstown and hope the rest of the town supports them as well!
I called the fire department to lend them support and sent emails to all the town council members including dan kinder.

I hope everyone else can take 10 minutes to do the same for the first responders. Because when its all said and done what's 10 minutes when the firefighters are devoting 96 hours a week??

I am glad councilman Brennan has come at this issue from a different prespective. As a retired Police officer, he has the best insight of the 5 into the matter of public safety. He was spot on during his comments at the Jan, 30, 2012 TC meeting, Stating the ordinance circumvented collective bargaining, working extra hours for little more pay, unneccasary hard feelings, and large legal fees if this change went through. It is interesting that both Councilpersons Hueston and Stamm kept on mentioning 20% pay increase even though they had just proposed and ammendment for 10% less than an hour earlier. Thank you Mr. Brennan.

The town has budgeted the fire department to have 65+ firefighters this fiscal year.

Back in September 2011 the town had a application process to hire new firefighter recruits.

About 150 men and women showed up to take the test. Interviews were done. Certifications were obtained by these applicants (prior to even applying) and physicals were taken.

Not a single person was hired off of the list so far.

Instead 25-30,000 dollars a week is being paid in overtime to fill the 22 vacancies within the fire department!

As a taxpayer, life long resident of North Kingstown, and a true and honest concerned resident who cares about his family, his friends, neighbors, and his property ....

I would like to hear more from the firefighters of North Kingstown, The Fire Chief, and the residents on this whole situation.

I feel that only hearing from Ray Furtado randomly is not going to help these men and women. Put the unions pensions and benefits and pay out to sea.
We are talking about 57 men and women who are working 56-96 hours a week. That equals to 4 full 24 hour days away from their families and personal lives.
Think about what their families are going through with not having their spouse, parent, or loved one home. Think about the stress those family members go through with not knowing if their husband, wife, mother or father isn't going to make it home when they are supposed to
Think about the stress from working 56-96 hours a week for past 5 months breaks them down mentally or physically.
These men and women are not millionaires and are able to fly to and from florida twice a month like charlie stamm.
Drive past a fire station in NK and look at the same vehicles parked there for days on end.

This all boils down to safety. What would happen if something horrible happened to them, us, or anyone else.
Will Dolan, heuston and stamm stand up at the funeral of a firefighter who suffered a heart attack at a fire after working 96 hours straight and say that the stress levels and professional studies said it was normal to work all those hours?
Will dan kinder send us a check in the mail when our houses burn to the ground because there weren't enough firefighters on staff to man a fire engine?

If there were 25% more firefighters on duty every shift then why are firefighters working over 56 hours a week?

Why are there safety checks in place for firefighters working more than 48 hours straight if the shift schedule is 24 hours on duty 24 hours off duty?

Enough is enough its time we as a town stand up and voice our concerns !!!

As always readers should form unbiased opinions based on ALL of the facts and not just untruths, half-truths, deceptions and distortions. Tax paying North Kingstown residents should continue supporting the Town Council as they are thinking of all rather than a few when they made their decision. For those that have already conveyed such to the Town Council should continue to promote the Town Council asking their friends to also support them via emails and or letters as they appreciate hearing from you the tax paying North Kingstown residents.

I wish everyone would think of theese firefighters. I agree the stress levels must be high. Whether at home, work this seems like a very sad situation. I have had the opportunity to meet a few of theese individuals in the past, they were very courteous, as well as professional. They do obviously have a great deal of training as well as job related stress level on a normal day , never mind with all this going on.
To all of them, I am very sorry you are going through this. Please know we do appreciate all you do. Mr Brennen I applaude you for stepping up to defend theese
firefighters, please continue they need you.

I love how the one negative loser (CR) is the only one commenting. Same statements that make no sense. Tels people to give facts when he has none himself. It would appear your outnumbered and out smarted and are slightly below fecal material on the depth chart. Move to Middletown, there is the same proportioned amount of idiots here as well...

Since the court said this is an illegal schedule, why is it not reversed? Is more court action pending?

I am wondering the same thing...any comment from Mr. Brennan on this?

I would also like to know why!

Maybe Mr. Brennan, bestwick, or Furtado can explain?

As a taxpayer who spends thousands in state, local and federal taxes every year with VERY little to show for it, I'm not amused by the comments here.
The "feigned sympathy" for a small group of unionized public employees combined with the bullying tactics of the state union "leaders" who came to our town to push around our elected officials last week is more than a coincidence! Is there an election?
Election year politics is causing folks to pretend to be involved in local issues in a enthusiastic way. But why?
Would it be because union membership is shrinking nationally?
Wisconsin's enormous loss of union membership is well documented. Given the choice, clear-minded taxpayers would rather have more control over their communities and jobs. Forced union dues, and the lack of any democratic input by unions is causing a collapse in union membership.
Liberty-loving citizens universally reject the "Union Stewards' Prayer". Threatening, bullying, and abusing is wrong.
This phoney, sudden effort at "public outcry" here is clear.
(Where have all these folks been the last few years, weeks?)
These union sympathizers don't live locally.
Many are ordered to hold signs for puppet-democrats at polling places, these folks are tools.. Ordered by the union fools to try to intimidate opposition.
We've seen this before.
Will we fall for it again?
Why should we trust these folks?
Look around, how are we doing after decades of this?
Let's face it: We're BROKE.

The question I asked at a public TC meeting last month was "if the ordinance is illegal and/or invalid what do we need to do to fix it?". I was told by the Town Manger that we do nothing because Judge Sterns ruling voids the ordinance . The town solicitor was there and he didn't disagree. I'm sure there are future court proceedings ahead of as well as future legal bills unfortunately.

Paul, I am not in ANY union currently, and have worked as management in a union shop as well as actually being in a union. Nor am I a "union sympathizer" as I deplore what some unions stand for, negotiating the conditions under which I would pay union dues myself at one place of employment. I would opt for a management position any day of the week, believe me.

That said, the situation is not "feigned sympathy" as you seem to think, but a real concern (at least on my part) about many who are being forced to work 48 and 96 hours straight responding to emergencies. Yes, they can quit and go elsewhere, absolutely. Everything everyone says about that is true. But think about the long-term ramifications of strategies such as this, both in the private and public arena. Suppose it becomes legal for employers to unilaterally extend work hours, and order employees to work as many hours per week as they see fit to save money. Now, take away all recourse on the part of the employee, or simply belittle any attempt they make to improve working conditions so that they are able to have a safe work environment or a family life. Where will we be?

There are unions doing exactly what you say...some of it is perception, some is reality, the truth is somewhere in the middle. In this case, I would assume that hiring a PR firm is taking the "high road" compared with some of the union tactics I have seen. Most of the links I have seen from this union have been to actual court documents and other primary source material, even on their own website. Of course they are going to try to make their case, but it looks like it has some merit. An arbitrator and judge both seemed to think so. The Labor Board seemed to think it had enough merit to file complaints.

So painting all "unions" with the same broad brush, and blaming them for all society's ills and the fact that the town is "BROKE" (which it is not), is, at the very least, not appropriate--at least in this instance.

Chuck- What a mess.... :(

If Judge Stern's ruling voids the ordinance----why are they continuing to obviously and blatenly break the law? Would it not make sense to return the firefighters to how is was before this whole mess started? Why are we continuing to pay lawyers to prolong the obvious answer that the town manager and solicitor are already admitting????? Why are
the legal bills continuing to mount to prolong this????? Does a nyone know??????
Regardless of whether you agree with this or not , read the above------ from Mr. Brennan,
I am confused what is going on ???

Interesting, after doing a little google research there was a town in penn. that cut workers pay nothing mentioned in regards to hours.However a judge ruled that it was illegal and the town must pay the workers back pay as well as 6% penalty/interest I guess. This started in when April here???

Paul is just another brainless bot !!

We are not broke because of unions we are broke because of corporate greed, a senseless war that cost billions, the loss of millions of jobs, the cost of oil overseas sky rocketing, the child like antics between politicans in DC, and the corruption of our politicans and law makers right here in rhode island.

Your comments hold no weight to them when dealing with these firefighters in NK. You talk about breaking the law? The town council is the one who broke the law
Not once but many times. And they are still doing it.
If it weren't for laws set in place not only would the 57 firefighters in our town be out of jobs thousands more in this state would be out of employment. Rhode island has the 3rd highest unemployment rate in the country.
These men and women are not fighting for insane wage increases, or not to pay their retirement or benefits. They are fighting for safe working conditions, and to work normal hours. Get your head out of your @$$ and wake up. Its not the firefighters who destroyed the economy but the people YOU voted for !!!

SUPPORT THE NKFD!!!!!

Rhody...the namecalling doesn't help. Keeping to the facts and the subject is enough. It really is, especially in this case!

If the town is broke why the 10% pay increase for the police and a 3% increase with bonus for Dept. heads? This has nothing to do with money! It seems to me the firefighters have embarrased the Council and the Manager, caught them in lies and made them look foolish. This is nothing more than revenge. Plain and simple Mr Stamm and Mrs Dolan with all of thier degrees are getting out smarted by a bunch of blue collar workers.....BOO HOO!

What is comes down to is cities and towns throwing everything thing against the wall and hoping in the end one or two things will stick. Hey if both sides were able to do that "In Good Faith" im all for it. Thats what negotiations are for. When you loose, to an arbitrairtor and a judge and still feel you right, then youve got bigger problems, you feel as though you have more power than you actually do. The City Council is wrong and will be put in a bad situation when this all settles. Im glad I don't live in in NK because its going to be a lot of legal and back pay fees...... Not to mention all the crying by CR

I post here because I can... It's called free speech ever heard of it!!!!

I'll grab a case of Kleenex I think you'll need all of it..

CR: Using your logic, does that mean that a resident like a renter who is not a North Kingstown taxpayer would not be allowed to post here even though it impacts their fire and ems protection? Would it be o.k. only if they support your position? The issue that needs to be resolved is the economic liability to you and taxpayers that continues to drag on. The OT is bleeding the budget without even a bandaid in sight. Mr. Martin is well within his rights to post here whether from Middletown, Beverly Hills, Davisville, South Bronx, or the dark side of the moon. What is next on your constitutional issues? Gun control? Women's voting rights? Just wondering......

What does it matter at this point.. if it was less factor in the $$ per hour they say they took in a pay cut. It'll probably equal out. Now throw in all the legal expenses stir the pot and guess what we are probably right back where we started then add the savings promised and look now we are in the red with that figure.. Again where is the fiscial responsibility in this ---- I am not seeing any not any at all. Actually it is starting to look like spending to me. spending with a what is listed above a "band aid". sounds like this is coming full circle.

Concerned... Tell me one single false comment I've made and I'll be gone forever!!!!!
I'm waiting...

Oh and by the way... I'm a REAL PERSON AND I DON'T HIDE BEHIND FAKE NAMES!!!!!!

If the truth is what you are looking for--- what was the OT budget prior to the "ordinance" that the Town manager has obviously admitted to being null and void. Maybe you should call him , since you dont believe any facts or statements posted her. Why is it that every blog here you turn into a ring around the rosy?
You at times sound like a lawyer cross examining people on the stand... sorry had to say it. Lets take some facts and ponder.... if they are not facts where can we get them? Again, why is this still going on? Court documents last I checked don't lie?
I've read them today, I am not a lawyer statements have been made by the town manager and soliciter----- it is void... but it still goes on??????????? Who is going to take ownership of this? Who is going to fix this, Mr. Brennen is trying obviously coming forward has not been easy I am assuming on him. I have yet to buy a band-aid thats stays on forever... By the way if someone knows of one let me know... a little off the subject LOL ( a little humor is need here)

As Werner Wolfe used to say: "Let's go to the video!" I just ate so I need no more baloney. I'm off to watch the Sox-Yanks game and have a few brews and stuffies.

Hey CR,,,Try another tatic other than the Chewbacca theory... Its getting old. If you want the "truth" you seek... Call your town mananger or Town council-- perhaps they can type another letter. All the legal documents seem to be posted , for all to read.
What court releases documents that are not true? If you'd like a hard copy or need to hear it from the source perhaps you should call Superior Court Judge Stern or the State Labor Relations Board. Oh Wait...... Liz Dolan is on that board. Would that be truth enough for you? Can you be receptive to them. CR i believe you think you are looking out for the best interest of the tax payers. However; I believe the memebers of the fire department are as well, these men and women perform this job everyday because they too really care about people. Even you. !! Regardless of how you feel or anyone else feel about them they will still risk thier lives to save you if called upon. Does that mean anything? Throughout all this, they are there and will continue to be there and unfortuntely the only ones they have looking out for each other is themselves. I urge you if your interested in finding out the "truth" please contact the fire dept go sit with them , talk to them, get to know them.
Then form your opinion because you are certainly entitled to . Try to become part of the solution . Not the problem which is already out of hand. Have a good night.

Still digging CR, I have more character in my toe nail than you do in your entire body. Since you never state facts, please inform me when I made a false statement. AGAIN STILL WAITING, nothing but garbage comes out of your uniformed mouth.... Tell me one false statement and I'll go away..

What am I missing what truth you haven't asked one question. AGAIN I'LL MAKE IT SIMPLE TELL ME ONE FALSE COMMENT... You can't really be this ignorant.

Ask it agin? Obviously I missed it.... FIRE AWAY

Once again, one person has hijacked an entire article through baiting readers, from 4:27 this afternoon on, this entire article has been devoted to one individual.

Please, everyone, ignore the baiting tactics, and get back to the subject at hand.

Going forward, hopefully a constructive dialog will be possible at some point between the Town Council. Does anyone know the state of their current contract negotiations? I looked online and saw that the contract expired quite sometime ago, I know that there was arbitration for the previous contract, but there must be some sort of negotiation going on at this point. Is there anyone who can update?

Going forward, the best possible dialog will be the swearing in of a Town Council not made up of RODENTS

Ah, yes, CR and NKGOP...both honest AND pest-free!
Still hoping to find out the status of current negotiations. It must be tough in the current climate, though.

Concerned you are full of fluff... Totally unbeLIEvable.. You had many chances and you still can't evan ask a question. I though you made some points before but now I n
Know you might not evan have a brain...

I think the patch should post each day how many firefighters are working more than 24 hours straight!

Rhody, that is an excellent idea. It seems like the truth about current working conditions really is the best policy. What better way than for folks to know what is going on each day!

What are we in third grade? I promise I won't beat you up by the flag pole at 3:15 is that ok... Still haven't asked a single question.. I'll keep plying the game. You don't have a question because I haven't said anything false... Just admit it... Hahahaha

Still waiting for the question???

STILL WAITING?

STILL WAITING!

Got it!! No question means you give up.. Thanks buddy!!!!!

Today's real estmated OT cost is $4,480.71 based on the contract hourly rate and the average weekly OT that has been admitted to. One week equals 31,365 per week at the contracted hourly rate. Translation is the Town is underpaying the firefighters OT by $5865 per week. Never mind how much they are underpaying what is owed for the "new and improved" 24 hour work schedule on a weekly basis for all those on straight time. Tick, tick, tick.... The retro liability grows by the day.

Curious as to where you obtained your OT number? Also curious as to why the OT was needed? Also hopeful that you honestly answer my questions.

Regarding Dolan , I mean, Concerned Resident, a number of us have discussed no reply to her. This is thonly way to keep us good participants from being pestered by a distasteful nkgop nuisance that goes straight from the packie to the keyboard.

I've never lied so why would I start now..... I agree to whatever childish rules you set up. You really are not a bright person, or have no social life whatsoever!!!

Frankly, the lack of critical thought and or balance many display on this blog is saddening. Nobody owes anyone a job. If you don't like what the town offers, get another one. It's that simple.

This is not about whether anyone "owes someone a job". It's about an unpopular decision that was also found illegal. From the same people who supported Jim Halley's activity, secured a huge inappropriate wind turbine for a "friend" and are all around bad for our town. This illegal labor abuse they have done, is representative of Dolan, Hueston, Stamm, and that loser Bestwick's inappropriateness for leadership of our town in these hard times.

STILL WAITING!!!! Where is my lack of class and integrity? I am laughing at your comments now as you spend more time with me than dealing with the real issues. Also explain what "public money is paid for.

CR: I used the figure posted earlier, divided that by 3 and then mulitplied that by 2 to get to a straight time rate which included the 10% increase. I then multiplied that by 123% to get to the correct straight time hourly rate. Then I multiplied that by 150% to get the OT rate which their hourly rate calls for. If they were at full strength, there would be OT for vacation, sick leave, etc. unless they had more people that the minimum calls for. Since they don't and the vacancies continue increase, the OT will continue to grow. Before you start about minimum manning, there is no paid Dept. in RI that meets the recommended national standards. Fortunately, the State Dept. of Health sets standards for what it takes to run a rescue or a private ambulance.

Where is my lack of character? I asked you a question. Something you don't know how to do!!!!

I appreciate your response.
With business and personal number, most informed managers would want substantiated info in determining what is real which is something that no one has offered. As I don't have any numbers (to the contrary), while planning to ask additional questions during the next posting I will assume that the current OT number is correct.
Excluding vacation time, I would like to offer that the ff's are self-determining required OT. As you or someone else feels that they have correct info, possibly they can look back at past ff OT. This is something that has happened for years and for any to object to this statement is out of touch. Lastly, you are correct in that the state set's standards BUT these standards were greatly influenced by the ff union such that I will ask where else these standards have grown and applied as such.

Interesting article:
http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODE/ProJo/LandingPage/LandingPage.aspx?href=VFBKLzIwMTIvMDgvMjE.&pageno=MTg.&entity=QXIwMTgwMA..&view=ZW50aXR5

Interesting article:
http://www.thewesterlysun.com/news/another-view-center-s-recommendations-would-benefit-state-s-workers/article_4a149d90-eac8-11e1-a05e-001a4bcf887a.html

CR: If they are abusing sick time, then it should be addressed by management. I haven't gone to the site to dig through their contract to see what the requirements are before they have to furnish a note. Unfortunately, since the Town controls management rights, if there is abuse, it is on them to deal with it. Not sure about your response to my EMS comments, doesn't seem to make sense. I certainly want qualified people working on me or my family if there is a medical emergency. Only having one person on a rescue would be equivilent to taking a taxi to the hospital while you are bleeding or having the big one in the back seat! Off to Home Depot for some honeydo projects and then the dentist.

First off I'd like to say, this is a very sad situation. I did call to inquire about how long theese people are working to see for myself and they are working longer than 24 hours at a time. I thank Chuck for coming forward , I do believe he has insight on both ends of the spectrum here. As with most in life until you go through something or have to do something yourself you never truly understand what is exactly entailed. Whether we like it or not, theese firefighters are living this life. They perform this work day in and out. Pardon me sounding like a broken record from above stated but the topic is not being discussed-- they know what it takes and entials to do this job and be at work. They (when they get to ) have to go home with not only a broken spirit from this treatment but the heartbreak of seeing what they see. Yes its is thier job, however imagine what they must see , process and move on , on a normal day but under theese pressures on top. I feel sorry for them.
Call find our for yourselves, Chuck seems to think this can be fixed. They have done alot for this town not only in the way of thier jobs but charity as well. I think its time we help them out. I have a grandfather who was a firechief, believe me when I tell you being a firefighter is your life its becomes your families way of life. You dont know any other way, it is in your blood. So dont belittle them by telling them to go elsewhere-- Support chuck, lets get this fixed, and move on.

Firefighters here is a quote from Albert Einstien:
" If your going through hell, keep going"
For your sake , I hope your not in it too much longer.

To all human kind--
"Strange is our situation here upon earth. Each of us comes for a short visit, not knowing why, yet sometimes seeming to divine a purpose. From the standpoint of daily life, however, there is one thing we do know: that man is here for the sake of other men"
Albert Einstein.

STILL WAITING CR!!!!!!

Interesting article:
http://www.golocalprov.com/news/dan-lawlor-casino-gaming-wont-save-rhode-island/

Theory of relativity to this story--- I believe Albert Einstien.....

Cr, rising taxes?? how much have your taxes gone up past few years? Just curious.
Glad to see your still using "taxes" as a ploy to show your jealousy towards NK Fire. The Fire Dept costs a cup of coffee a day. I think it is a good expense.

Out of 219 posts on this subject, Concerned Resident (Golden Brown Boy from FL) has posted 88 times. That is one reply every 2.5 posts, or 40% of the time. I think he has a HUGE vested interest in this topic. Interesting........

A noble thing for you to do is to get a job or come out of retirement if you are having $ trouble. You said how your wife has a pension you should help her out rather than sit on the computer. Right? I mean this in a polite way as possible too. This blog is not doing anything for your portfolio. As a matter of fact if you are a coffee drinker that buys it everyday just start brewing your own while on the computer and there is your savings of taxes towards your insurance policy of having a dedicated Fire Dept willing to show up at your house when you need them. problem solved for you.... No Charge or thanks necessary. Just a strange rebuttal will do.

Seems that Warwick city council, the mayor, and the fire department know what they are doing!..

They currently have a class of 12 new recruits in a academy now
And thanks to a federal grant that pays for training,pay, and benefits for 2 years they are hiring 17 more!!!

29 new firefighters in 1 year...

How many has NK hired in the past 4 years?????

NONE

Cranston hired 10 new firefighters last month

Narragansett hired 6 new firefighters over the past 2 years

West warwick hired 11 new firefighters last year

Johnston hired 10 new firefighters within the past 2 years

Portsmouth hired 2 new firefighters this year

Middletown hired 5 new firefighters this year

Newport hired 5 new firefighters this year

Even Central falls, Woonsocket, Cumberland, Lincoln, and Smithfield have all hired new firefighters this year!

North Kingstown has not hired a single person since 2008!!!!!

Why is it that almost every town and city in Rhode Island is hiring new recruits to fill vacancies, cut overtime, and increase public safety.

Yet North Kingstown feels that running a department 22 firefighters short with 25 eligible to retire this year is safe, smart, and right!

Can't wait to read the article saying NKFD hires New Recruits!!!

Interesting reading in todays Pro Jo. Warwick hiring 17 more new firefighters... "This will allow us to greatly reduce our overtime costs," Avedisian said.
The city was already bringing on 12 more firefighters and now another 17 with a SAFER grant , so without a grant hiring 12. Senator Reed --" We call on our firefighters in moments of crisis and they always answer that call. The hiring of additional firefighters will improve emergency response capabilities". What a concept. Not maintaining a overworked Fire Dept--- is this a new concept??? " A fire departments greatest asset is skilled frontlife firefighters" Whitehouse said. Hiring additional firefighters to to cut OT costs...... Warwick's mayor seems to understand ---- Now I am confused resident? Seems to back up what the F.D. has been stating..... ????

Seems that even the senators and a mayor agree that hiring new recruits to slash overtime makes more sense than placing a 56-96 hour work week on a already undermanned and over worked department!!!

I guess the town will have to wait and see if the town council realizes that firefighters working 96 hours a week is just stupid and unsafe

Oh, but im not a 1st timer.... again CR just more quesitons not many answers.. Curious as too the FF to person ratio in other towns.... ratio... more to come intersting.!!! Your last response was quite a bit delayed... Makes one wonder...!!!! You seem to be infatuated w/ the FD dont see you posting much on other topise.... Makes one wonder !!! Will make many wonder!!

I didn't see the Projo article, but saw the press conference on the evening news. Will more NK Firefighters be leaving for Warwick FD now? I also saw in the last TC meeting, the NK Fire Dept. received grants for a new fire/rescue boat and radio equipment saving the town $1.2 million dollars.

Interesting article:
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/huge-cost-public-unions-article-1.1143138?localLinksEnabled=false

Cr. You can google search any anti union "opinion" from any state you want but we are talking about NK. The Fire Dept costs the avg taxpayer a cup of coffee a day and despite what you say its not a choice we need a Fire Dept.

3 more people are retiring this month and september from the NK fire department.

2 just left last month to go to warwick fire department

That's 5 vacancies within 3 months.. Not including the vacancies they had before the 24 hour switch!

Who is going to be filling in those 280 hours a week?

Town council might just make the current firefighters pick up the slack. Seeing as how NK firefighters do don't runs at night and sleep all day anyways!

Its crazy to see how city councils like warwick cranston even providence hire firefighters to reduce overtime. Yet NK town council feels that firefighters working 56 hour work weeks plus 56 hours of overtime is safe cheap and smart!

Just stop in your local firehouse and ask the guys.... It's that easy. I did!

Important Dates for everyone posting here:

RI Labor Board Hearings Sept. 4th
RI Labor Board Hearings Sept. 11th
General Election Nov. 6th

These date may help solve the problem or more clearly define how the Town Council will go forth. The seige of the NK firefighters continues with overtime the order of the day. Taxpayers retroactive financial liability continues to grow with no end in sight. At least today is a great day for any Sox fan.... Beckett is gone!!!!

Easy one. They were never o.k. with the 24 hr. shift ordinance especially since it was done by forcing them from a 42 hr work week to a 56 hour work week with no pay raise. Yes, the TC did kick it up 10%, but that's still a huge cut. We've been over this before about the old OT, but as the vacancies increased so did the OT. Yes, it's cheaper to pay OT than hire, but where is the break-even on wear & tear vs. efficiency. Dept.'s that work 24 hour shifts normally have 4 platoons, not the indentured servitude system in place in NK. Just a matter of time before an "oh s##t!" Meanwhile the vancancy numbers are going to increase and thus the OT payout and retro liability. I know many decades ago that a neighboring town worked 56 hr work weeks with 3 platoons, but they were paid for the 56 hours and did not work 24 hr. shifts. I recall they did three 10 hour days, three 14 hour nights, and three days off. I don't think NKFD even has enough warm bodies left to do that schedule without OT. That's the kind of thing that needs to be negotiated, not shoved down people's throats.

Right now as I type this post, the NKFD is involved in a marine incident/rescue (not an uncommon occurance) that has required the commitment of multiple pieces of appartus.

As of 5:30pm tonight, NKFD Engine 3, the primary Engine that covers the north end of Town, was taken out of service due to a lack of available staffing. That engine would normally be available to respond for an additional emergency that may occur while all of the other companies are committed.

It is not.

In their letter to the press, Council members Liz Dolan, Carol Hueston, and Charles Stamm stated clearly "We will not sacrifice safety". The loss of Engine 3 since 5:30pm, until 7:30am tomorrow morning has resulted in an undeniable lack of emergency coverage the Town's residents.

"We will not sacrifice safety". Have they? I leave it to you be the judge.

Please contact the members of the Town Council at towncouncil@northkingstown.org and let them know that this is unacceptable. This isn't an expert, an arbitration award, a PR firm, or a legal decision.

This is simply the reality of the situation.

They haven't listened to us. Let's hope they listen to you.

WHAT!!!!! I live in the North End this is totally unaceptable! This is now effecting me and my family. This town council is out of control! They should all be removed from office today! I am at a loss of words and will be contacting each one of them tomorrow.

What caused the statffing shortage this particular evening? Is it due to vacations, ff's calling off or sick days?

Very good question, Antics. Thank you for asking. The staffing shortage is and has been caused by a lack of personnel. Staffing levels, and not the work shift, are the main drivers of overtime (see below). The NKFD is woefully understaffed, and the excessive hours worked by the folks on the job is the driving factor behind the vacancies, whether they be the result of sick or vacation time. This is not my assertion, but rather the product of research by a 30-year expert on fatigue; the Town Council's expert, no less:

“The staffing level, and not the shift schedule, is the primary determinant of overtime levels, average time off-duty, and other key factors related to employee fatigue. Therefore, it is vital to first address taskload/workflow issues, ensure adequate staffing levels, and to proportionally balance them to workload across the 24/7 schedule.” – Dr. Martin Moore-Ede

He is the Town’s expert. Here is Dr. Moore-Ede’s bio http://www.circadian.com/about-us/leadership/191.html.

Here is the link to his “white paper” that supports my statement (pg. 14, Section 8.1):
http://www.circadian.com/component/k2/item/5-white-paper-evolution-of-fatigue-risk-management-systems.htm

.

That said, he represents a sizable chunk of the $50,000 the Town spent on “experts”, and they never present his data or testimony. Why? Great question for the Town Council majority, don’t you think? I certainly do.

For instance as you’ve asked, let's take tonight. Right now due to the illegally imposed 24 hour shift/56 hour work week, there are seven vacancies being filled. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle of fatigue that results in massively extended work shifts. There are six firefighters working beyond 24 hours in a row. It is easily confirmed through NKFD documentation. There are three people that will have been at the station for at least 34 hours straight, one for 48 straight. Another one of our firefighters "took" a shift for tomorrow to help another fire fighter out of a family jam, resulting in a 58 hour shift. Jammed himself in the process, but that’s what we’ve been forced to do, repeatedly for the past five months. And another will be working 72 hours straight, slated to finally go home Monday morning at 7:30am.

So it is a regular occurance that firehouses routinely have service vehicles that go unmanned?

None of them know if they will be going home to their families in the morning.

And don’t forget, in the middle of this, just 5 hours ago the ENTIRE shift had to do their best to try and handle a complicated marine rescue involving multiple agencies and apparatus, in addition to other calls. If I didn’t post it here, who would have known? Your firefighters do incredible things on a regular basis, and nobody knows. More importantly, after all these hours and the work already done, what else will happen tonight before 7:30am? Even worse, who will get ordered to stay tomorrow morning? And for how long?

When the phone rings in the firehouse everybody cringes. Firefighters don't know "For Whom the Bell Tolls". Who isn't going home? What will the next shift bring? How will I tell my wife? How will I make make it up to my son or daughter.... again? That last call was one of my worst. Hope the next one isn't a bad one, too....

When will this end?

“We will not sacrifice safety”. Huh…. Really.

What has become clear to us is that we can only rely on each other to try and minimize the wreckless damage caused by the self-initiated/defended actions of council members Dolan, Hueston, and Stamm.

If the TC spent as much time trying to understand the importance of NK FIRE/EMS safety as they do ideologically fighting us at every turn, we would all be better served. Hopefully that happens soon, with this TC or the next. Our residents deserve nothing less.

@clutch 127,

How many times has this or other fire trucks been taken out of service.?

According to the town website the town had a posting for hiring september of last year. Has anyone been hired off of the list?

I hope you go to the news and newspapers with this. Because like you said about the incident last night. If you hadn't posted anything like that on here most of us residents wouldn't have known a truck was out of service or a water emergency requiring the whole town was going on!!!

Please respond back I'd like to find out more information!

Thanks

I'd also like ask...

If the town approved the fiscal budget according to the document on the town website.

There is money in the fire department budget for a part-time pay for current firefighters to run a Recruit School. And money for 8 physicals for new hires.

Why hasn't that money been used to hire replacements if there are so many vacancies?

And are these vacancies every day because guys are on vacation, sick, injured or are these vacancies because the town a lost some firefighters????

LLL if it means they get new recruits to fill the voids and slash some over time then I think its best for the department and the town

What do you expect the town to never hire again? Someone has to train new firefighters at some point

if they slash overtime (meaning firefighters will not be working 96 hours a week) by hiring new recruits then they will not shut down trucks. They will be able to fill those spots on the trucks.

My understanding is that the fire academy for the state is not fully operational yet. They had a article in the Projo alittle while back about it.

I know the town requires all new hires have a EMT-Cardiac license before they are hired. If some new applicants already have certifications the department could save money by doing on the job training that way the new hires could be considered extra people on those fire engines..

I am awaiting what Clutch 127 has to say. Hopefully he can shed some light for us ! Just throwing the comment of "putting a truck out of service last night" was not enough !!!

I can not see how the fire department can wait till september or even november working this current shift schedule!!

Its all very weird to me that warwick just hired 12 new firefighters and plans to hire 17 more when the 12 graduate in december !!! And North kingstown has not hired a single person since 2008

Hello wonderful patch people, I just recently inquired to the town hall about expenses paid to Attorney Kinder and Assoc.

Town of North Kingstown has dispersed $198,480.13 in checks to Kinder and associates since December 7th 2011. This figure will be much larger soon.

One thing is certain; the council majority loves lawyers, and hates FFs.

I hope you all have absolutely wonderful days; that includes you too CR !

Chris your a firefighter correct?

When was the last time your department has hired and how many?

When your department has vacancies do they hire or fill those spots with overtime?

I'm not understanding at all why department across the state feel it is better to reduce overtime by hiring new recruits and NK seems to be doing the opposite by forcing firefighters to work 96 hours a week and losing firefighters every month and still not hiring

CR: Here are the true answers you want, but called dishonest.
1. They never were in favor of the 24 hr shift that the Town implemented
2. Yes, they took a cut in pay for the increased work hours - simple math!
3. Both since the current schedule is untenible with the ever increasing staff shortage and forced OT,
4. I do think, but I will have to check if they have enough people to run the 3 platoons without OT since they have lost and are losing more people.
5. Retired - work from home and care for elderly parent
6. Still waiting for a response from the TC members.

Nice try though! I did forget one date from the list I posted though. October 5th - Bobby Valentine fired.

When the T/C voted in the 24-hour schedule, I spoke for my family and yours when I did not support this change. Who wants a Firefighter responding to their home in an emergency that has been working (on the job) for 24 hours never mind 36, 48 and longer. At this point the T/C will just sit and wait till November and let the next T/C take on this problem and get them off the hook. Please remember who voted for this: Dolan, Heuston and Stamm. If you check the record or the with the last two chiefs you will find that the republicans and the T/M have been doing the same thing for years: trainng recruits and letting them go to other departmetns at our expense. Under staffing and way too much overtime has been their way to operate. I don't believe in this schedule. We are just waiting for something to happen that could be avoided and that is sad! A change in the majority on the T/C is needed if we are going to change the direction of our town. Know your T/C candidates and what they stand for when you vote in November. If they won't stand up now for what is right what can you expect after November?

Interesting reading:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/24/camden-nj-to-reboot-police-department-by-new-year/#ixzz24e3FPNvM?test=latestnews

CR: This is old news. The plight of Camden was on 60 Minutes over a year ago! This new organization already has problems since some communities and chiefs don't want to give up their "turf" One of the things unspoken in the article is that the officers going into the "county" sytem already are planning to unionize once it is actually organized, so they would not be non-union for long. Now the big question? Since North Kingstown is in two counties, which one do the join? Comparing North Kingstown to Camden is rather a stretch. If you've even been there it makes South Providence look like the garden of Eden. I felt safer in Bed-Sty, Dorchester, and South Providence at night that I did just driving through Camden at 1pm!

CR - I have several questions for you, and for the record, I'm not trying to be offensive or abrasive, just looking for "your" side/suggestions. Also, for the record (as I don't want to be called deceitful) I am a union employee, but not necessarily pro-union.
My question is this: what is your suggestion to resolve this outcome in a fair and acceptable fashion for both the taxpayer AND the firefighter? I ask for both, because lets be realistic(agree or not), Union's aren't going anywhere. Second question: What were the previous overtime costs prior to the 24 hour shifts? You've made several open ended questions to people of what they were, and I was just wondering if you did? And could you enlighten me? Third question, do you at all believe that Mr. Embury could be held in contempt of court for not returning the FF's to their previous shifts, as the Ordinance change was found to be illegal according to an arbitrator. What is your explanation for the Town of NK being in shambles right now? First the deal with the FF's, now Janitor's and essentially teachers possibly striking on the first day of school due to another alleged breach of contract. While I'm sure some of these problems begin with Unions, you can't deny the fact that disorganized and inappropriate decisions by past/present Council leaders throughout the State have been the "earthquake" to cause these "tsunami's" of economic misfortune. And While I'm not so Pro-Union, I'm certainly ANTI-LAWYER!

So my next question is this: Do you agree that Mr. Dan Kinder, the "Legal Consult" that NK has hired, has been more of a problem than a solution. Your major concern has been lower taxes, or a zero tax increase. However, since Mr. Kinder has step foot, NK, as well as many other communities have spent 100's of thousands of dollars in legal fee's. Would you agree that that money could be better spent towards the budget and actually keeping the tax rate low or lowered? I understand that it takes two to tango, so the council and union's would both have to bargain "in good faith" for the system to work.
Lastly, are you concerned that with all the "shenanigans" going on, NK is losing good employee's to other counties, and may begin to harbor less than stellar employee's in our schools etc, affecting education, public safety, and overall Town pride? These are honest questions, so please just honest replies or no reply at all please and thank you.

Fair enough CR, have a wonderful and safe evening.

@B-ri: I appreciate both your tone and your honesty. I’ll apologize up front as in some instances I cannot offer detail I will attempt to answer your questions. I will answer your questions directly without adding my opinion, I’m hopeful that you respect my responses as I respect your questions. I am also hopeful that you’ll agree that in the end there will not be any magic in resolving much. After you read my repsonse(s) I would appreciate hearing that you would be receptive to my questions.
What is your suggestion to resolve this outcome in a fair and acceptable fashion for both the taxpayer AND the firefighter. - Fair negotiations on both sides. As it seemed that both the ff and the town were initially receptive to the 24 hr shift ordinance this seems to have the potential of a win win situation. If you look back at similar topic article posts you can see that among other a major drawback was the potential for decreased overtime.
Do you at all believe that Mr. Embury could be held in contempt of court for not returning the FF's to their previous shifts, as the Ordinance change was found to be illegal according to an arbitrator. – Obviously anything is possible but as is I do not feel that Mr Embury will be held in contempt as this is part of the legal process.

What is your explanation for the Town of NK being in shambles right now? – Although like many other cities and towns North Kingstown has issues but I don’t think that we are in shambles. It seems that you are making to reference to town union issues…… of equal importance is tax paying residents. Residents and unions are in need to understand that times have and continue to change requiring adjustments accordingly.
I'm sure some of these problems begin with Unions, you can't deny the fact that disorganized and inappropriate decisions by past/present Council leaders throughout the State have been the "earthquake" to cause these "tsunami's" of economic misfortune. I’m in agreement with your comment as in more instances than not it takes two to create a mess such as this.
And While I'm not so Pro-Union, I'm certainly ANTI-LAWYER! – If politicians, lawyers and unions were to suddenly go away it would seem that many would be better off.
So my next question is this: Do you agree that Mr. Dan Kinder, the "Legal Consult" that NK has hired, has been more of a problem than a solution. – Absolutely agree.
Would you agree that that money could be better spent towards the budget and actually keeping the tax rate low or lowered? – Absolutely agree.
it takes two to tango, so the council and union's would both have to bargain "in good faith" for the system to work. – Absolutely agree.

NK is losing good employee's to other counties, and may begin to harbor less than stellar employee's in our schools etc, affecting education, public safety, and overall Town pride? – Absolutely agree.

Well it seems the two of us agree on 75% of this. As far as the 24 hour shifts go, I believe they are talking apples and you may be speaking about oranges. My understanding is the firefighters agreed on a 4 platoon, 24 on 24 off 24 on 5 off schedule. This is in fact te system a good deal of fire departments across the country running fire AND EMS use. However the 3 platoon 56 hour work week is what your referring to I believe. Correct?

@CR...Very reasonable responses...thank you. It is good to see you responding in respectful manner, and I mean that sincerely. Appreciate your answers. The change of tone was really refreshing!