Reading blogs it was easy to see that the FD was after more money in these difficult times. Makes me wonder what Bestwick and Brennan were thinking and or who they are actually representing voting no to the ordinance. The residents of NK are grateful that 3 of our Representatives actually care.

The actual pay increase was stated as 20% per Heuston. That is on the video. She also claimed that it would be directed at the pension which would add approximately $9K to each account. It's nice to see them throwing money around like this. The firemen are not helping their cause by grandstanding the fairness card - negotiating and more talking. This has been going on for months but unless you agree to something, the process won't work. Of course these babies will run to court for relief, like all these unions seem to do but they might find a different reaction by the judges. Simply because you don't like the change in working conditions is not grounds to run to court. Perhaps the town should bill the unions if the unions lose the case. That would give the unions cause to think twice, maybe. Perhaps the ultimate answer is for the town to explore outsourcing the fire department to save the taxpayers money. RI has the most expensive firefighters of all the 50 states. Again, blame the negotiations for this.

If a firefighter works 33% more hours and you offer to pay him or her for 20% how is that an increase? Seems to me (basic math) it's a decrease of 13%. If the town wants savings discontinue recycling @ $800,000.00. I will gladly bring my bins to the transfer station. In the "real world" if you want an employee to work more you have to compensate them. Lets not forget most of us dont deal with the stress of life and death decisions on a daily basis. If we have a bad day in the "real world" generally we are not haunted in our dreams of a dead baby, decapitation, serious fire, ect....You get my point. I work in the "real world" many of you speak of and I for one would not consider doing the job of a firefighter.....as many of you would'nt either. In closing I would like to say dont lose sight of what the firefighters in NK do and how important they are.

Nice spin job worthy of Newt Gingrich. I wonder how much NK taxpayers are paying Kinder to write this one? Two or three billing hours? NKfamily100years has it right. It is a cut when you do the math. An old saying: "Figures don't lie, liars figure". The 20% figure for a raise was mixing apples and oranges. Unfortunately when you do the math, it was much more than a 13% pay cut.

Firefighters were ranked #2, second only to enlisted soldiers in the military, according to CNBC for the Most Stressful Jobs in America.
I am so tired of people using our LOCAL heroes as scapegoats for the problems that our cities and towns are facing. They are our 1ST defense against any kind of horrific situation we may face. Have you ever lived with a firefighter? Do you know the kind of stress that this job entails? Well I do, and so do my children. We have spent more than our fair share of time worrying about our loved one and what he/she may be facing. We have spent countless holidays, celebrations, and weekends without our loved one. Unfortunately, we have had to witness our public servant in action when OFF-DUTY too. Whether it be helping someone at church who is having a heart attack, or someone having a asthma attack in the grocery store, or at a horrific car accident that we have witnessed. Even when our loved one is with us, we deal with exhaustion from shifts that are too long, stressors beyond our imagination, and the disrespect that is common in our society. Before you judge, visit the family of a first responder, ask questions, & understand all of the information, not the misinformation that you are being fed.

Folks..remember basic math you were taught?

Let's say you were working (on average) a 42 hour week. Now you work a 56 hour week. Percent change equals Difference/base so (56-42)/42 = 14/42 = 33%.

Now, let's say you were being "X" dollars per week - so now you would make 1.2X (20% more). Previously, your weekly earnings were (X/42) on a per hour basis. Now, you make (1.2X/56) on a per hour basis.

So, the net change is ((1.2X/56 - X/42))/ (X/42)..which if you make a common factor of 168, becomes ((3.6X/168 - 4x/168))/(4x/168). Now, the X/168 drops out so it becomes (3.6-4)/4 or -.4/4 = -.1 or 10% reduction.

Use numbers if you like. Weekly pay = $1000. 42 hour week -=$23.81 an hour. New pay is $1,200 for 56 hours, or 21,43 an hour.

21.43 - 23.81 = -2.38 (change).. % change is -2.38/23.81..or -10%.

And Paul -- yes, FF sleep, especially on 24 hour shifts. They need to eat, train, and maintain as well...but public safety is a form of *collective insurance*. Think about life/auto insurance -- if you never use it, that's a good thing although you've paid premiums to minimize the downside risk (cost).

so, same with public safety. We can do things both individually (fire alarms, common sense and less risky behaviors) and collectively (zoning, building codes, etc.) to minimize risk, but we pay for a certain level of safety; as a town, our leaders need to determine the balance between what is costs and the level of protection.

I guess Paul couldn't affort to camp or check into a Motel 6. Three days at one spot sounds like he was freeloading. He'd rather enjoy the hospitality he was offered and now skewers them? Nice guy. With friends like that, who needs enemies! Happy trails.

Didnt NK fire fighters used to be VOLUNTARY? How many towns in RI have volunteer fire departments? Maybe there is a solution where you get all RI firefighters to be paid and under one standardized state negotiated contract. Why have all the little battles constantly going on in 39 cities and towns all the time with police, fire, teachers, highway, water, services, and a bunch of others.

Maybe someone should publish a 'labor battles and skirmishes' index for RI! I bet right now its running over 100...

As to this particular issue, why does the letter say 10% increase and Hueston is quoted with a 20% pay increase?

What a mess.

Finally, when we reopened Station 5 (which the REPUBLICANS did NOT want, and instead wanted to spend a TON of money on a less responsive single southern station on 138!), the FF agreed to half staffing so Station 5 could be done more affordably, so they can be worked with, I saw it with my own eyes.

Amazing how a select few with hidden agendas can twist the facts.
Will firefighters see a 10%, 20%, or other reduction in pay?
Proposal resistance was due to lost family time. Like anyone else, get them to talk enough to peel away the smoke and mirrors allowing all to see the core problem. Thinking I am going to tell my boss what is and isn't acceptable to me and oh yea, give me a raise even though you don’t have the funds for it. Let me know if your interested in how I make out.

I don't need a math degree to understand that like it or not, cuts are needed, yet no one wants to be the one to raise their hand and say "I'll chip in". School teachers, you in for a cut? Police? Fire? How about plow drivers? What are you willing to give up? Nothing is what fire is saying. Same as everyone else.
The council found something that does cut both salaries and pensions long term. I don't need to understand the math of their cut, the only math I'm interested in is how are we going to reduce the $2mm budget shortfall and every move made should be toward that end, lest we'd prefer the Central Falls way of solving it.
As the doctor says, "this is going to hurt a little" and every single organization will sue or cry foul when it hurts them.

I think we need to lock out the entire fire department, release them from their services to the town, and go back to a volunteer fire department.

NKRI Transparency- we need to lock out the fire department? and who is going to run public safety?

For all to be aware, someone has duplicated my name while posting. I have report such to patch editor.

For all to know, I have been advised that the individual attempting to deceive and post as me attempted to fool Patch by using a lower case L in place of capital i in NKRI. I have also been advised that this a typical union associate game attempting to discredit and or scare the average resident.

Mister Marshall: Who are you accusing of wrongdoing? What is this bad behavior you speak of? These so called "thugs" are your own Fire Dept. who probably get very little for the amount of time they put in other than all the B*S* they get for free. What bad behavior? Did they toilet paper your trees? Egg your house? Tell us what you mean. Yes, the citizens of NK deserve honest, open discussion of the issues. Legal costs, who authorized those? Doesn't sound like all of the TC were receiving all of the facts only the select "incrowd". The issues need to be resolve in North Kingstown, not in some court by outsiders. However, that is exactly what will happen due to the illegal actions of three of your elected officials who are on a power trip.

Dear "Tired" (or whatever your name really is-since you're too small to reveal yourself): The Liedecker Case is a GREAT illustration of what the good citizens of RI face everyday from your 'saintly' union thugs. although he is a Teachers Union officer, he was convicted of cyber-bullying state Rep. Doug Gablinske then REWARDED by Bob Walsh by a promotion. This behavior is repeated throughout the state. I've spoken to many union thugs at polling stations accross the state over the past 40 years. They don't know the issues, don't know the candidates, and many are from out of town. They do know their union bosses TOLD them to show up and hold a sign for a liberal-approved robot democRAT candidate. The idea is to "bully" the opposition. Freighten off potential candidates. Further, they send out thugs to key and egg candidates cars, steal signs and posters, spread lies and cause other kinds of mayhem. I've personally be phoned by union sympathizers and had them scream profanities. (Your pal Rep. Ken Carter did just this before his defeat at the polls last election). There are HUNDREDS of stories just like this. It's time we stood up and said no more! Down with the unions.

All of this is childish. I hadnt been on the previous "blogs", and was told about this last week. It seems as though everyone on here has stuff to say to eachother on both sides of an argument, but it looks like it is getting way out of hand. If you ask me, both sides should at least try to work things out the way they are supposed to be.

Bob:

I would agree. This needs to be handled locally. Mister Marshall keeps wanting to paint his own firefighters as thugs, etc. citing cases that have very little to do with North Kingstown meanwhile he looks to their hospitality to save a few bucks on lodging while on vacation. Time to lock both sides in a room until agreement is reached. Leave the lawyers at home so the taxpayers don't get gouged further. North Kingstown has some great people in public safety. They don't need to keep getting bashed by the likes of Mr. Marshall.

......any truth to Independent article that the current law suit filed by the FD is justified by the fact that our TC could have done more to avoid current situation by further increasing resident taxes to max cap?

"Increase in Clothing Allowance?" For what reason do they get a clothing allowance? I go to work everyday and have to purchase the clothes I wear. Yes, anything I do need for work place safety is provided by the company - but I am not carte blanche given money "for clothing."

Is it tax free? Sounds like it was put in during a negotiation a while back to grease the wheels and get a contract signed - what better way to give money away. I hope the receipts are all submitted and the expenses reconciled like any other employee/employer would have to do.

I would love a clothing allowance. But I dont get blood and guts on my clothes at work. How much do they get, i know that fireproof material is expensive, though.

i think that the law is the law. until someone changes the laws, the meanness should be put aside. you all seem pretty passionate about these issues. maybe try some pro activeness, and a little understanding. i can completely understand the frustration, really. i am glad i am not in either sides shoes. i feel bad for the families of all the folks involved. be nice now everyone, good night.

I think nurses should wear those short little white dresses like back in the good old days (when firefighters were all volunteers)

Liz Gledhill commented on:
Letter: Council Republicans Defend Fire Dept. Restructuring
Are you required to wear your work clothes to bed? To wear them in a structure fire? Does the sole of your shoes ever melt, …

Where did this post go?

I think what is missing in all of this conversation is that no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Like any profession, if you don't like the terms or conditions of the job, then move on. Public service put demands on individuals that accept those positions and individuals know this going into it. They are answerable to the superiors who in turn work for the people who appoint them, namely, the Town Council. This holds for any municipality. Public Utilities have these demands as well. If the terms or working conditions of the job are putting too much strain on your situation, find another job! That is what goes on in the private sector. Even with unions in the private sector, you don't have to listen to the whining.

I love the trolls that come on here and talk tradh all day.
GOVStench,Nkri transparency, gopWatch, fleeced enough, and now Paul Marshall.

You all probably Sit in a dark room waiting for someone to rebut you... Only leaving the computer for bathroom breaks and coffee. Have fun being forever alone.

Honestly, not a single person here cares what you think about ff work uniforms, nurses scrubs, recycling pickup, and providence retiree information. Yes Gov, those bloated 6 figure salaries r crazy, but that's a providence problem, not nk. Look at a map of RI sometime and learn your geography...,,,

Chris, it is actually trolls that rant and rave at TC meetings about paying lawyers instead of lining "your" pockets...............if you really care (which obviously you don't) about NK you will move on! Amazing that the extreme minority wants to bully the majority that obvious you forget you work for.

I understand Chris Demers frustration as several posters have gone off topic. This thread is about three Council members trying to defend their illegal actions with incorrect and contradictory information compared to what they said on video. No taxpayer wants to pay more than necessary for services, but they also should not expect to have "hidden costs" for legal fees to cost more than the ultimate result. As for union haters such as Paul who is a two faced individual who enjoys the hospitality of firefighters and then trashes them, that adds nothing to this thread. North Kingstown firefighters are no where near paid as well as Providence, and unlike Providence are members of the State Pension system which does not have outrageous COLAS and has been cut even more under recent legislation. Perhaps, Paul should pedal his ideas in Idaho where there are less laws to reign in his "free spirit". For NKRI Transparency, Chris lives in NK, but does not work there. Please have your facts straight before shooting.

Amazing how judgemental loons (who hide behind pen names) are so quick to namecall those of us who expect decency and honesty from our town employees. I'm the only one who has admitted to spending any time in a Firehouse and it wasn't "hospitality" we were after. We were 17 years old and it was pouring down rain. Besides Demers, anyone else on here a fireman? I share honest observations that hit your nerves and shatter your imagery . Too bad. Quit posing the firemen as Gods. They're not. They're our employees. If they can't handle their jobs, they should look elsewhere for work.

NKRI Transparency: You said Mr. Demers was trying to "line his pockets". If he doesn't work for NK, why would you make such a statement? I believe his a taxpayer, not an employee. Providence is not in the same pension plan, has been a mess for decades due to political corruption. I don't see anything near that scale in North Kingstown. Mr. Marshall, nobody said firefighters were Gods. Were you in a hurricane, monsoon on your ride? You said earlier you were there for 3 days. Sounds more like freeloading. Still a rather two-faced action on your part. I actually was a fireman for a time. I worked on some large boilers when in high school and college under a maintenance dept. We had to clean the soot out of them. A real dirty job! I do think the term you want for the people you are bashing is "firefighter". Firemen tend boilers, not fight fires. It is a profession. Yes, the firefighters are YOUR employees. As such you should give the some respect for doing a job you obviously know litte about and don't wish to pursue.

Very interesting and passionate debate here. One thought that comes to my mind is - where does the bigger picture come in to play? I would be very interested to hear views about the distribution of wealth in our country and how this is the root cause of these, what i like to think of as the cause of these " fighting over the scraps on the bone" debates. What are peoples thoughts in regard to realligning the countries taxing structure to justly raise funds from those in the top 20% of wealth who hold upwards of 85% of our country's wealth. What are thoughts on the need to "build the flesh back up on the bone" to alleveiate some of this in-fighting? As Lincoln said quoting directly from the good book - no house divided stands. Local in-fighting is causing small communities to divide....sadly the only ones conquering all of us is the top 5%.

NKRI Transparency;

I guess I'm pretty dull with a B.A. from URI, a B.S from PC, and an Associate degree along the way from CCRI. I don't recall any corruption in NK other than some insider deals in the school dept. Sounds like you have way too many conspiracy theories. If you have leads, call Channel 12!

Here is an interesting concept that is being employeed in Massachusetts - how about your public service employees receiving their COLA's based on just $12,000 of pay? AND, they have to get the approval of the Mass legislature! That ends all of the discussions and fighting in each community. Let the state take over ALL the pensions and deal with them equally and fairly. Also, the health care could be handled the same way except in fairness to the private sector retirees who still pay taxes, have the public employees on Medicare as well. That totally ends the arguements.

I am for whatever it takes to eliminate tax increases especially during these difficult times.

As one who has worked in both the private sector and the public sector, for financial reasons I have often considered a return to my private sector career. I made more than double my current salary (with less education), received raises and bonuses (now I receive "hard" pay freezes), and all education and certifications were paid by my employer. Working in the public sector is not easy, particularly when subjected to the kind of criticism seen here. I hope this community is able to see their way clear to supporting those who work to preserve their lives and property in emergency situations.

Peacefulone, while to a point I will agree with you, not sure how long it has been since you've worked in private industry. I think you would be surprised at low if any difference in public - industry pay, increased health insurance costs, 401k pensions with minimal match, higher expectations including hours etc.

True enough, but in private industry the salaries have always tended to increase with education and training, which are generally paid by the employer. Health care is out of control and 401k plans generally have been a 50% match up to 6%. The only area which might be a bit sticky here might be the "higher expectations including hours etc." part...folks working on an hourly basis are generally willing to put in the hours necessary as long as they are paid for it. Salaried people work longer hours for the same pay--both my former and current professions are salaried. The firefighters are paid hourly, so they would not be expected (in the private sector) to work more hours unless they were paid for those hours. Hopefully an agreement can be reached that will benefit the town of NK, and will be reasonable for the firefighters as well.

I have a few questions I would like to address to the fire fighters and rescue personnel contributing to this forum.
1.) How many fire calls did you respond in January?
2.) How many times was the rescue dispatched in January?
3.) What do you do when not on calls?

Peaceful one you have a great job and must be very satisfied. Teaching mostly suburban kids in south county is not equated with teaching in the urban setting, thats for sure. The voltage is a lot higher up in the city!

Peacefulone - although I think you are attempting to be sincere unfortunately you don't have a clue as to how the real world aka private industry has changed through the years.

NKRI Transparency - The fact that one has changed careers does not imply that there is no longer contact with the "real world aka private industry," nor a lack of understanding of changes occuring through the years. An hourly wage is an hourly wage, and a salary is a salary. Folks working for a salary work the number of hours required to complete a job, while hourly wage-earners are paid by the hour. There are other earning classifications, but my understanding is that the firefighters have always been paid an hourly wage. These statements are not in any way meant to be argumentative, so please understand them as respectful comments.

Career changers do maintain relationships with folks in private industry too. You have an interesting perspective, however, and your remarks are duly noted. (Please understand if I do not comment again, this thread is beginning to take more time and energy than I have to spare.)

Again, my best to the firefighters as well as the town of NK in their quest to find common ground.

Peacefulone - I am a degreed employee that worked my way up from the bottom to upper management positions. With downward pressure and in contrary to your comments I've had to make many difficult decisions. I’m living and experiencing such daily as opposed to viewing from afar. Through my positions, I associate with many of the same that also have been experiencing such. I stand by comment as it is unfortunate that many public employees have led a sheltered work life without being prepared for what is now happening. If you are aware of better situations I would challenge you to share the knowledge wealth for those experiencing difficult times in this economy. Nothing would please me more than to pass your information to other giving you credit for such.
Touching on the topic subject I will ask you where the money should come in support of required tax increases if the TC were to take your advice? The homeless, residents on the verge of losing their home, residents having to make difficult daily choices……….possibly you could work in a soup kitchen and or food pantry for a day to see a part of what is really going on in society. As the saying goes, talk is cheap.

Here is the deal: The free enterprise economy works by letting the marketplace determine value. The further you get away from that, the greater the imbalance. The public sector (government) employees in many positions through what Gov Stench calls "coercive bargaining" have pulled the rubber band too far, and that imbalance is now at the breaking point as we see in CF and EP and now Prov. You can't change the laws of physics by printing money or raising taxes. If that were possible, the USSR would not have collapsed in on itself. Talk IS cheap, but the marketplace rolls on with its undeniable forces. Unionized public employees beware and be ready.

So, any talk about "teachers do a great job" and "firefighters are heroes" is irrelevant to the ability of the taxpaying public to sustain X costs before you see some real negative effects to the local and state economy.

Unions = fiscal ruin for Town, when are we going to figure this out??????

Taxpayers have the ultimate say allowing their voice to heard as long as we engage. Many are hopeful that the seeds of union resistance is growing.

Any doubt - see approx 1/2 way down the article as similar to FF union attitude: http://www.golocalprov.com/politics/trav1/

There was a letter in the Standard Times today by the daughter of an NK firefighter, and it caused me to look again at this issue a little more deeply than I originally had. The NK Standard Times and NE Independent have each weighed in on the actions of the majority of the NKTC (see below). I am not defending the fire union by any means, but if the "Council Repubicans" truly believe they are right, why are they writing such a clearly defensive “open letter”? I know our elected officials deal with many tough issues, but I don't know about this one. I think the absence of unity by the Council (regardless of party) may signify that there are other factors to consider other those presented by the Council or the fireifgters for that matter. It is making me wonder for the first time who is really telling the truth…. Not looking for a fight, but based on everything I’ve read above and elsewhere, it seems that the TC may have overplayed their hand. Hopefully our Council and our firefighters can find common ground once and for all and work together.

http://www.ricentral.com/content/editorial-towns-ordinance-decision-could-set-bad-precedent

http://www.neindependent.com/articles/2012/02/09/opinion/doc4f33e2150f555861596878.txt

Travis, I believe that your comments are sincere but to be honest the first article is very biased while the second is slightly biased. As a representative of residents, difficult times dictate the need to cut town expenses lessening or eliminating the need to raise taxes. As one who has attended many meetings, after 8 months of fruitless negotiations I felt the TC was backed into a corner with a need to react. It was interesting that the FF decided to file suit rather than take advantage of the option of 6 weeks of further negotiations. I could go on but most if not all has been explained in this and previous Patch editorials - comments which are still available.

East Providence firefighters receive double pay on their birthdays as well as firefighters memorial day. All firefighters on the payroll on 14 separate occasions (each firefighter) receive double pay for being on duty. Example: a firefighter works a 14 hour night shift (this is a standard shift) on his birthday and earns 672.00 for that one tour of duty. This example is the lowest paid firefighter. Another example: On firefighters memorial day every single firefighter on duty earns 480.00 for a 10 hour shift and 672.00 for a 14 hour shift, once again this is the lowest paid firefighter. This situation is able to happen 14 times in a calendar year for each firefighter as there are 12 additional holidays on the contract that the firefighter can earn DOUBLE PAY. In addition every firefighter can retire at the pay grade of Lieutenant if they worked on a rescue for X amount of years prior to retirement even if they never obtained that rank, bring on the receiver.
How is the NK firefighters doing? Anyone seen their contract lately? I am sure there are similiar gimmicks buried in there somewhere.

Govstench: I don't have the answers you seek, but before skewering every firefighter in North Kingstown, why don't you check the facts yourself? What happens in East Providence is about as revelent as what happens in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Did you check comparables, neighboring communities? South Kingstown, Narragansett, East Greenwich? It is rare that both local newspapers would denounce the tactics being used by the town council. Since there is smoke, there must be fire somewhere. I hope the two parties can work this all out without the Town paying Kinder another basket of cash NK doesn't have.

I'm Tired of the Games: What happens in East Providence is not relevant to what happens in NK???????
A little strange that FF from other towns show at other community TC meetings including NK...........Come on man..............
I would suggest you look to see the whole picture by way of articles and facts to better understand why they are actually fighting with the TC. You are losing credibility as to your motive(s).

nkri transparency: May i call you carol? You always have the last word. When this goes to court both sides wont be happy trust me.

I prefer blue revos actually... and thanks for the advice, i might try the rose colored ones someday.

To NKRI Transparency, you said you were at many meetings and I'm wondering what demands the fire union made to back the council into a corner. Reading the posts and articles in the papers I had available, nowhere does it say what they were demanding (what was costing 400k)? What were the excessive demands the fire union insisted on? The epople deserve to know. I appreciate your input.

I notice that nobody from the fire union never discuss what they demanded from the town council. I'm sure it may have bordered on the ridiculous; what was so objectionable? What did they run to court to file suit over? There's no specifics about that either, except for the union reps claim that the Council is being illegal. Please clarify if you can at your leisure. TY

To NKRI, I read about the 24 hour shift argument, and it seems both sides have valid reasons for wanting their way. Personally, I don't know how it could be good or safe to work a shift thats twice as long as the old one, but evidnetly its been researched by smarter people than me on the subject. The question I had for you though was what did the fire union ask for that was so extreme? Also, you say they are suing all of us, but my question is why? I thought they were going to court against the council, but what is the problem/charge they say they have? How can they sue if they wont negotiate? Do you know? Help. TY

its not about getting no OT or no new hires so get your facts straight ! .. its about the town forcing the firefighters to work 56 hours a week and only paying them for 42. The town needs to hire new firefighters because they are down 19 and have guys leaving to go to other departments and guys retiring this year so even when they move from a 4 platoon system (each platoon has 17 firefighters) to a 3 platoon system that will put them below staffing. So now the only person getting rich in this whole process is Dan Kinder the lawyer who has been making millions off of the taxpayer not the firefighter

Rhodeyresident0303 is on the money here. All the great cost savings are just spin. As the legal fees and overtime climb, it will become apparent. For Govstench who flipflopped my post. My response was to his bashing NK firefighters without the facts of what is in their contracts. What flys in EP, doesn't necessarily work in South County. Has he since provided any facts from the NK contract showing such things? No. Just more venomous hatred of any public employee. The only ones who are going to get rich from this mess are Kinder and Associates. Meanwhile, the taxpayers are going to pay the price. Lock both sides in a room until they reach an agreement that works without the political grandstanding.

Rhodeyresident303: Questions for you (I'm looking forward to your dialog) -
- So if you were getting more money you were ok with switching to a 24 hr. shift?
- You were not one of many stating that the issue with a 24 hr. shift was your personal life? Is the same ok with working 24 hr. shift for additional compensation?
- If I recall correctly there was additional compensation with the revised ordinance, was it not enough?
- So why did the TC feel the need to make changes?
- So the FD proposals would have not caused an increase in resident taxes? If yes, what should residents do that cannot afford additional tax increases.
- Have continued negotiations since the TC vote? If no, why not?
- Why were other town / city FD employee's at the TC meeting?
- Do you feel it appropriate that FF tell the TC that with all they will continue to do their job? Should it have been a known or was there an underlining message?
- Did you feel it appropriate for FF to yell threats as they left the meeting?
- Who does the NKFD work for? Who does the NKFD report to?
- When the town changes to a privatized FD, will any of the passed ordinance issues matter?

I'm tired of the Games: your screen name holds true for many.
As is, there may be no winners. As was, the tax payer will continue to lose.
Are you ok with continual tax increases during these difficult times for many?
What do you think is going to happen when MA starts to open gambling facitities?
Did you see that the Fed denied RI request to put a toll on rt 95? What do you think that means?
Have you noticed recent business closures and relocations out of state? What do you think that means?
It amazes me that a few don't get it.

Travis: please be aware that I have not forgotten about your questions. It's just that whenever I ask direct questions of those in the know I seem to have a difficult time getting responses. Can you offer any thoughts as to why that might be? Perhaps you can assist by asking the last 2 individuals (after you and prior to me) to respond in kind. I will ask that you be assured that as soon as we can receive real answered much will be clear. For now we wait as March 1 is approaching..

NKRI Transparency...
Perhaps folks are not answering your questions because you are either:
a) Designing/wording them in order to combat any possible answer that may be given.
b) Using name-calling and belittling as tactics when you respond to such answers. (Earlier, you told me that I "don't have a clue" and to go work in a homeless shelter...actually you may be surprised at how much of a clue I do have and that I have worked in homeless shelters many times, but I refuse to engage in this type of banter.)
Just wanted to give you a "heads up." If people are not responding to you, perhaps it is because you have made it clear that you are baiting them.

As before, I will close by hoping for the best for the town of NK--safety, peace, and prosperity; understanding in these times none of that comes easily. I hope that the Town Council and Firefighters are able to find common ground and work together to find a solution which works for all.

First off let me clear this up... im not a NK firefighter.

the council offered 10% annual pay raise without letting the firefighters know. you can clearly see in the recording of the video this was the first time the firefighters and the taxpayers were made aware of a 10% pay increase.

a 10% pay raise is actually not compensating firefighters for the hours total they are working.
simple math and facts will show you
pay for entry level firefighter in NK is 18.64 an hour X that by their current 42 hour work week and its 40,709.76
entry level pay again is 18.64 an hour now X that by the projected 56 hour work week and its 54,279.68
the town is still not compensating these firefighters for all the extra hours they will be working because a 10% increase in annual pay would only be 4,070.96 still leaving 9,499.02 out of the hours worked ! .... and if and when they start working the 56 hour work week firefighter hourly pay will be 13.98 an hour if they arent compensated

Rhodeyresident0303:
Are you not a firefighter?
It seems you are aware as you make mention of pay details, curious as to what the average actual yearly pay is? What are the benefits?
As you seem to be aware of much, are you not able to answer my previous questions?
I look forward to our continued dialog allowing many to understand both sides of the issue?

Were you at the meeting? Did you get up and speak? Clearly you didn’t and if you feel so strongly why didn’t you go and speak? Why didn’t you contact the firefighters or the town council and tell them how you feel? Instead of coming on here with no factual evidence and your own mind spun words and “informing” people that it’s the union it’s the union the firefighters are thugs. Have you taken the time to go through PUBLIC documents and video recordings and look up these questions? NO? Well to answer these questions I did just that. You speak of the firefighter threats so let me make a comment about that. If someone were to take away the food from your child’s plate and told your wife that you would be working two extra days a week with no compensation with the chance of losing your job what would you do? The North Kingstown fire department works for the people and reports to the chief this question is a joke the town fire department is the most respectful thankless dedicated fire department in this state. You talk of the town going to a private fire department then you cry about tax dollars you do realize the legal costs that it will take to do so?

The issue with the shift change is that they are asking the firefighters to work more hours for less pay and no increase in manpower. It’s about life safety with an increase work load.
The FD proposals would have not caused an increase in resident taxes the fire department proposed savings over 1,000,000 dollars. How would that increase resident taxes? The town will be increasing your taxes because instead of negotiating with the fire department they will pay the lawyers well over 1,000,000 in court. I don’t know if they are speaking to the town council or if the town council is speaking with the firefighters because I am not a firefighter or a firefighter in North Kingstown. Other firefighters and city employees were at the meeting and so were people who had nothing to do with the fire department because they live in town and pay taxes in the town and depend on the North Kingstown fire department when they are sick, injured, or in need of them.

Wow--the unions have pulled out all the stops. Disinformation, rants, emotional appeals and a lot of hot air.

1) No one can make you work more for less--quit and find another job. It's called freedom. Frankly, even with the shift changes, the pay and benefits are really good for a job that requires only a high school education. Not to mention the pension.

2) The town won't have to pay more for lawyers if the firefighters don't sue.

3) Please tell me what gives you the moral right to hold the town hostage to your demands? Where, in the private sector, do employees dictate pay and work hours to their employer?

Just wanted to mention something...a sizable grant was awarded to the Town of NK for the Fire Department. This upgrades the emergency radio system and adds $577,631. in assets to the town. The firefighters wrote this grant, and it will help with public safety. That looks like a good thing to me. That tells me that they care about the town and the level of safety, over and beyond the normal training, testing, hydrant shoveling, and touring of facilities I have personally seen around town. Not every community in RI asked for or received this grant.

Rhodeyresident0303: It's a shame that when the FF's are asked direct questions I like many to all others cannot get a direct answer. The defence seems to be deiversionary rather than direct. I learned a long time ago that gray and mushey is anything but justified or acceptable.

Local Resident: the school committee issues are over?????? Strange how you refer to honest comments as attacking the Fire Department. Be careful what you wish for????? Appreciate the dialog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NKRI Transparency......If you seek real honest answers why dont you contact the fire chief and or union president. Your looing for answers on a blog? Really??? Give them a call I am sure as a Taxpayer (If you really are) they would be happy to provide you with the answers you seek.

NKfamily100years: my questions are in response to comments that obviously don't care about NK residents as; as far as I am concerned the FF union is suing me. Is your suggestion an indication that the TC is not giving honest answers? Much of what has been learned has been via blogs, meetings and the newspapers. Regardless of all - right, wrong or indifferent I have had occassion to disagree with my employer and their rules such that I decided to move on The bottom line is that the TC is in need of holding the line on any and all tax increases. Does that make sense?

To NKRI Transparency With respect, I asked a couple of simple questions of you last week that you never answered. What I don't understand is how you since then put many other questions to people on these pages and expect answers. Your comments since my firsat post seem to be anti-firefighter on this issue, and I think you migt have more credibility if you toned down your dislike of these people and focused on fact. But, as a "for instance" If rhody resident 0303 take on the salary is accurate it does seem like a big pay cut, not an increase. Do you agree or disagree?

Since these posts have become full of emotion, can you just give a simple answer to any of my now three questions?

What did the firefighters want that was so demanding it forced this action by the council? We all deserve to know.

What exactly are they suing for? What amount of money? Why?

You speak often of idea like "credibility" and "desires for answers" in you numerous posts. Please lead by example and answer mine. You have responded to many other posts since my questions, I am just looking for facts, thats all. TY

Transparency....I agree a ton of my monthly income goes toward taxes. Do I want an increase. NO. However some increase each year due to inflation, projects and overall health of the town are nessessary. If I did my numbers right approx $423.00 of my yearly property tax goes toward my Fire and EMS protection. For me and I dont speak for everyone it is a reasonable amount for full time professional emergency service. It's $1.15 per day.....alot less than our daily Jitters fix.

Maybe we should sell back the millions in open space land we bought or now might be the time to reconcider the incinerator we passed on. Lots of bad decisions over LOTS of years that cost all of us a ton of money in tax relief. I have been here a very very long time believe me I know about all the skelatons. I am not saying your wrong about taxes and the ability to pay I'm just saying lets look at all the reasons we're here.

http://www.muni-info.ri.gov/documents/contracts/North%20Kingstown/North%20Kingstown-Fire%20Fighters%202007-2010.pdf

the above link is the North Kingstown Fire Department contract with the town of North Kingstown. it was from 2007-2010 and has been up for 2 years now.

I have given you FACTS from public documents and used grade school math to dumb it down for you. I have also answered your questions to the best of my ability. The internet is a wonderful tool when you use it ! You should try in NKRI and maybe all these questions you are asking would be answered. Also feel free to contact the North Kingstown Town Council or Fire Chief Fenwick Gardiner if you have any questions and they will answer them for you.

1.14 a day for public safety ! Why dont you call your Auto, Home, Health Insurance companies and complain to them as well. You are quick to blame the NKFD but yet wont point the finger at anyone else !

or another idea.... If you feel so strongly that you live in a horrible town then sell your house and MOVE !

There ya go putting words in others mouth......I never said I live in a terrible town. Maybe you should look in the mirror pal!

I will take a PROFESSIONAL DEDICATED fire department over a volunteer private call fire department any day of the week !

To NKRI Transparency, I can't believe you getting so worked up over me. I have read a lot in the last few days (as you've directed me to do), and I notice that the overwhelming amount of comments are from you. You claimed to have been present at many of these meetings, so I asked a couple of related questions. That was all. Bombarding me with all of these questions in response while providing no answers to mine is uncalled for. I never attacked you. However, I now know what everyone else is talking about.

It is also very interesting to me that the articles published by reputable local papers are dismissed by you as biased, but the letter written by three council mambers is not. I just don't undertand that logic.

I only asked you these questions because of this statement by you: "As a representative of residents, difficult times dictate the need to cut town expenses lessening or eliminating the need to raise taxes. As one who has attended many meetings, after 8 months of fruitless negotiations I felt the TC was backed into a corner with a need to react".

That was it. I wont bug you anymore. No hard feelings. If anyone else is able to answer these please do. TY.

Travis: I am not worked up by you at all.
Meeting does not provide all information as it needs to be a collection from all involved.
I am not aware of any articles that I have dismissed, please advise.
Appreciate no hard feelings as I feel the same, thanks.

if the department goes from a fulltime professional fire department to a volunteer fire department or call fire department are you for it ?

the town of north kingstown does over 5,000 runs a year how do expect volunteers who have fulltime jobs to handle those runs ?

if the town switches to a volunteer fire department who will pay for the training and the equipment each firefighter needs ?

will you as a taxpayer and a resident step up to the plate and dedicate the time and energy needed to volunteer for the fire department and your fellow neighbors ?

volunteer fire departments in this state and in this country are phasing out due to not being able to get the trucks out of the station when calls come in, not enough trained people to man the trucks, how would you change this ?

why would the town council not want a PROFESSIONAL fire department for their residents do you know ? do you have any info for us as to why they feel the need to not have the best possible public safety in this town?

someone made a comment before that all you need is a high school education to become a firefighter. that may be true in some states but the training they obtain in a academy far exceededs what you can learn in a class room
BEYOND THE BASICS - FIREGROUND SUPPORT
COMMAND & CONTROL OF FD OPERATIONS AT TARGET HAZARDS
CONFINED SPACE RESCUE TECHNICIAN
DRIVER/OPERATOR - AERIAL (NFPA 1002)
DRIVER/OPERATOR - PUMPER (NFPA 1002)
EXPLOSIVES INCIDENT RESPONSE
FIRE/ARSON ORIGIN AND CAUSE INVESTIGATION
FIREFIGHTER 1 (NFPA 1001 - Level 1)
FIREFIGHTER 2 (NFPA 1001 - Level 2)
HAZ-MAT OPERATIONS
HAZ-MAT TECHNICIAN
NIMS: ICS FOR THE FIRE SERVICE Classes Level 100, 200, 300, 400, 700, 800
PLAN REVIEW
ROPE RESCUE TECHNICIAN
SWIFT WATER RESCUE
TRENCH RESCUE TECHNICIAN
Rhode Island EMT- Basic
Rhode Island EMT- Cardiac
American Heart Association CPR
American Heart Association AED
American Heart Association IV Therapy and IV Pump
American Heart Association Advanced Cardiac Life Support
American Heart Association Pediatric Advanced Life Support

the above classes and training are what the North Kingstown Fire Department and Fire Departments in this state attend and obtain certifications for when they go through training it is also public information
http://www.fire-marshal.ri.gov/Classes.php

answer my questions if you want answers....

all you have done is asked questions when people are asking you questions

Carol H. Hueston
Town Council Member
294-9680
Charles H. Stamm
Town Council Member
268-3922
Elizabeth S. Dolan
Town Council President
294-9952
Michael S. Bestwick
Town Council Member
294-9642
Charles E. Brennan, Jr.
Town Council Member
401-398-0931
Chief Fenwick Gardiner
401-294-3346

give them a call and get your questions answered !

Rhodeyresident0303: it is unfortunte that you can not or refuse to see the truth.
I am a Tax paying NK resident working in the private sector. You?

Rhody and others, while all of this is very entertaining, I think it would be wise to take a step back and read these posts a little more closely. NKtransparency already has the answers and is clearly provoking. It is quite apparent that this person is someone on the list you just provided above. Any further "debate" with this individual would be fruitless, unless you enjoy banging your heads against the wall. Fair winds and following seas.

NK: I saw you previous post thanking you for the info.
As far as your comment regarding section 10 of the ordinance - "Town including changes from an all-professional Fire Department to one that includes volunteers, call persons, and private contractors". I am not sure how any can indicate that this proposal translates to a volunteer FD.....do you see such as a volunteer FD?

NK: I saw you previous post thanking you for the info.
As far as your comment regarding section 10 of the ordinance - "Town including changes from an all-professional Fire Department to one that includes volunteers, call persons, and private contractors". I am not sure how any can indicate that this proposal translates to a volunteer FD.....do you see such as a volunteer FD?

I am out of this conversation......Good god transparency run for office then we can put a face and name to your annoying posts. Good luck NKFD you guys do a bang up job for EVERYONE in NK.

I couldnt help but notice that NKFAMILY100 didnt capitalize God as he should have. THIS is just what Rick Santorum is trying to say in order to get to be president, the Satanists are taking over! LOL

NK: your implying much that was never said. The NKFF (individuals) that I know are good people and with a high degree of confidence I'm sure the same holds true for most if not all others . Unions are bringing have all but brought this state to its knee's....shall I remind you about troubled towns and cities including our own which could fall down the same slippery slope if care is not taken. Have you also noticed that when asked representation bloggers go away? All and all they do not like to be asked the difficult questions that exposes the truth. Please tell me you watched the pension reform hearings.

I wonder when people will get it
http://www.pbn.com/US-governors-have-few-answers-as-cities-face-bankruptcy-risk,65672